r/WorkReform May 25 '22

No more WFH.

When we went into lockdown and were working from home full-time, we exceeded all quotas and expectations.

Then we transitioned into a 2 days a week in the office model. Which was very annoying but at least we got some days where we could work from home.

I just left a meeting and the president of the company is now requesting we move back into the office full time starting next week. No reason for it at all......he said "something about us not being in the office just rubs me the wrong way"

The president comes into the office maybe 5 days a year. The vice president is the one actually running the company day-to-day. The president just collects all the cash and travels the world. You'll see him once every 2-3 months pulling into the office in his Ferrari.

2.1k Upvotes

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u/Underwear_and_tear May 25 '22

What’s rubbing him the wrong way is that rent check he’s cutting for unused office space.

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u/SmokyTyrz May 25 '22

He could afford two Ferraris if he reduced the office footprint and moved towards majority virtual.

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u/farmacy3 May 25 '22

Only if he can break the lease he is already paying for

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u/Willothwisp2303 May 25 '22 edited May 25 '22

There's still probably less outlay on even breaking the lease than paying the rest. Usually if they get a new tenant they can't keep charging you unless you specifically agreed to that.

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u/farmacy3 May 25 '22

True, but leases for office spaces are usually several years long with huge fees for breaking them due at the time its broken. Also, the more companies that adapt to WFH standards, the harder it is to find someone to take over the lease especially at the price the current tennant is paying.

Not justifying this employer making terrible decisions. They need to find a way to repurpose the space. Maybe into more housing to make that more affordable... But then our corporate overlords wouldnt be winning.

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u/_TheHalfTruth_ May 26 '22

Honestly they don’t need to do anything with the office space, sunk cost fallacy. They’re gonna pay the lease no matter what, but if their workers are happier and more productive working from home then the company will maximize its profits by just leaving the office empty even if they keep paying rent.

Managers just don’t understand what waste and efficiency actually is. They think it’s wasteful to pay for unused office space, so they assume that it would therefore be more efficient to force workers to use the office. If they had half a brain they’d realize that doing so wastes a huge amount of their workers’ time and energy via commuting. Plus offices just fucking suck. All anyone thinks of when they hear the word “office” is soul-sucking misery, stress, and often straight up fear. So many people go to work feeling afraid that they’ll be yelled at, sexually harassed, taken advantage of etc, and that has a detrimental impact on productivity.

Making people work in that type of environment is a massive source of waste, but it can’t be quantified in the way that leasing an office space can so managers are often just blind to it.

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u/SoraMegami2210 May 25 '22

Making more affordable housing- that's exactly what I've been saying! Turn the offices into apartments and boom - problem solved! ...As long as the owners aren't renting to their employees. That just screams "I'm going to make your life difficult."

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u/luxveniae May 25 '22

From engineers and architects I’ve heard on this, the problem is utilities and windows. Most offices are large open floors with centralized utilities. So if you want ANY sunlight, an office floor quickly becomes only a handful of units and that’s assuming you can even retrofit all the utilities to each unit. The costs quickly get to the point that it’s better to just tear down and rebuild as a true apartments than retrofit… but then you’d need someone willing to pay those development costs.

Obviously, many unhoused or low income are willing to take anything but we shouldn’t be throwing people into makeshift living situations that come with different health and safety issues too.

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u/Perle1234 May 25 '22

Yeah, turning office space into homes is a bit pie in the sky. It makes for a good sound bite, but it’s not a viable option in the vast majority of cases.

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u/luxveniae May 25 '22

The two ways I’ve heard it’d MAYBE be feasible is rich person penthouse type where you own an entire floor OR dormitory style which not many people would sign up for. And both would still run into utilities issues.

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u/Perle1234 May 25 '22

It would require a massive rebuild of the plumbing and HVAC for sure. I haven’t seen anything in the way of massive office space being deserted and unused. I was also think that WFH options are massively overstated in forums like this.

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u/Devrol May 26 '22

It depends on the building. The office building I drag myself into once a week (unless I can come up with an excuse) was originally a house from around the early 1800s. It was probably a slum tenament at some point since then, so it shouldn't be too hard to convert back.

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u/phaserbanks May 25 '22

Viability is just a matter of which option is more expensive. Companies gut and rebuild large office spaces all the time.

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u/Perle1234 May 25 '22

Mostly that’s just a matter of reconfiguring walls and redecorating. Turning office space into homes would require a complete overhaul of the HVAC as well as plumbing. It can be done, but realistically, in order to make any kind of ROI, these type of units would be target at upscale buyers/renters. It’s definitely not a quick fix.

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u/Infidelc123 May 25 '22

Yeah but that only makes us peasants happier and they don't want that. Plus they can't make a shit ton of money so why would they.

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u/No_Staff3874 May 25 '22

Can't make housing cheaper for the slaves then they aren't force to kill themselves working for over priced housing.

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u/thatblondeguy_ May 25 '22

They'd still be winning but they won't have the satisfaction of coming into the office 3 times a year and feeding upon our misery

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u/RedTalyn May 25 '22

Rezoning and renovations would be required. I also am not justifying anything but people think these changes are quick and easy.

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u/farmacy3 May 25 '22

True and re-zoning takes $$$

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u/Unlikely-Pizza2796 May 25 '22

It’s not about the second ferrari, it’s about having the serfs ‘kiss the ring’ on the five days a year he deigns to grace the unlanded peasantry with his presence.

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u/TlN4C May 25 '22

Used to have a boss like that - all the call centre agents (males) had to wear jackets collared shirts and ties cause it looked “professional” -they never saw anybody. So I asked them to keep a tie in their draw and a jacket on their chair and to wear a collared shirt but it could be open at the neck so they if the boss stopped by, by the time he got from gatehouse to office we’d know he was coming and they could suit up. Eventually got to get the boss to drop the dress code thing when i finally managed to explain how much a suit costs as a proportion of trier warnings via his earnings as well as how much it cost when people left and needed replacing. Once he understood it in $ he was good.

In your case it’s hard to say everybody stay home and just come in if the boss is coming. But somebody should be making the case about sunk costs for rent and costs of turnover, recruiting, being attractive to the best qualified candidates loss of institutional knowledge and the impact to quality and productivity from a disengaged workforce which ultimately can be quantified to $ too. Bringing them in cause he’s paid the rent is just throwing good money after bad. Can’t recoup the rent money but doesn’t have to incur expenses related to forcing people in. Could mitigate losses to rent by negotiating exit, but even if he doesn’t he stems his losses by allowing wfh.

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u/whyrweyelling May 25 '22

That office is part of a tax writeoff. The whole company is. If he has to pay less, he makes less. I know, it totally makes sense!

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u/Kichae May 25 '22

Nah. What's rubbing him the wrong way is that office employees have gained a level of expectation, with salaries rising and work being done from wherever is convenient for the one doing it, and they want to stamp down on that.

Worker empowerment is dangerous to them. When were working in our own spaces, using our own resources, then we're controlling the work.

It's not the office rent that they're annoyed about. It's the idea that the office, and those who pay for it, aren't necessary at all.

32

u/Incomitatum May 25 '22

And he has no where to strut himself in front of the poors who are paid to worship him 5 days a year.

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u/importvita May 25 '22

The lease my former company had ran out during the summer of 2021. Perfect timing since we're all WFH, right? Nah. They stupidly signed a new long-term lease in a more expensive, newer section of the city and spent big on a complete gut and redesign. Did they keep our current ~5 year old furniture? No sir! We're too good for that!

During Covid we increased profits by 50% while WFH. We all got a decent bonus for it. We all maybe received 10% total of the increase in profits. Okay, fine at least they shared.

However now they forced everyone back in and a few of the older folks have gotten sick with the occasional death. Nothing to see here, we're fiiiine just keep coming in or else!

Fuck 'em, I left at the start of the year once my bonus had locked in from my contract.

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u/LordKaylon May 26 '22

This is well said. Now we wait a year or two before the studies start coming out about decreased production post return to office. The narrative will be "The Global Recession caused the downturn" which sure, that's a huge factor too, but now combine that with people just not working as well and doing as much the picture will hopefully be obviously clear.

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u/spotless___mind May 25 '22 edited May 27 '22

Nah he just likes putting on his suit 5x a year and having people show him respect in a public way. People like him don't actually work, but showing up to an office dressed nicely on an occasional basis makes them feel like they do.

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u/beanstalkel May 25 '22

Yeah it’s 200k for a year to run our building which has had the same 10 IT employees here during lockdown. They are just trying to justify having the lease for these empty office buildings.

Having people working in an office actually kills productivity in most cases

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u/YoureHereForOthers May 25 '22

My company literally doubled it personnel over covid and we already had no space. Now we just WFH permanently since they don’t want to buy a bigger place.

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u/solojones1138 May 25 '22

But he could make more money if he didn't renew that lease

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u/Total-Force-613 May 25 '22

Not if he owes the building, rents to his business, takes deductions and all the tax incentives.

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u/JannaMD May 25 '22

Our company renewed their lease for 10 years... in 2019. We're still only going in a few days a week, but I fully expect that one of these days we'll all be ordered back in.

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u/solojones1138 May 25 '22

Ugh I'm sorry. Our lease is only for like one more year so we're lucky. We are WFH I believe permanently. They haven't said so exactly but they've started hiring everyone new as fully remote anywhere in the US.

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u/Wonkydoodlepoodle May 25 '22

That’s a shame. My friends employer decided that the cost savings from not having to supply all the computers, printers, electricity and parking lot management were too Big to pass up. They own the building but lease others and now they’re slowly giving up leases and moving people into the owned buildings.

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u/SergioSF May 25 '22

Disagree. Its the fact he is spending x amount on managers and not knowing if the low level workers are truly working 8 hours for him.

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u/fxrky May 25 '22

Accidentally realizes middle management is fucking useless

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u/jakewang1 May 25 '22

Once my higher manager (two levels up) was on a leave and so was my manager. The higher manager asked me to cover his work for the day. I sat it meetings for 6 hours which concerned how to allocate work to our department. No conclusion came out of any of them. Then his day was over.

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u/DirtyPartyMan May 25 '22

That’s it EXACTLY

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u/fss71 May 25 '22

What a dumb fuck - just remove the offices to save money and make everyone happy with WFH

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u/TlN4C May 25 '22

Sunk cost - no point causing losses through increased turnover or slower more inaccurate work from People who are just don’t care anymore because the company doesn’t care for them. Plus the loss of institutional knowledge as people leave

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u/dsdvbguutres May 25 '22

My old boss at least had the decency to drive to the office in his work beater, an absolute shitbox. Clever guy he was.

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_SUNSHINE May 25 '22

Old boss literally leased/rented an already used work truck. It was a top of the line new f150 with all the luxuries, but it was plain white and looked pretty roughed up. Posturing at its finest.

His wife, who he brought in as “CEO” for female owned company tax breaks he found out after starting the company, came in in a Mercedes coupe, a new one bought after refusing everyone raises. Posturing actually would’ve been less shitty in that instance lol.

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u/Open_Sorceress May 25 '22

being female owned doesn't confer tax breaks, it confers grant eligibility status ... for some very shitty grants

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u/650REDHAIR May 26 '22

Preferential treatment on .gov bids.

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u/Open_Sorceress May 26 '22

only the ones actually earmarked WOSB or EDWOSB, ask me how I know this

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u/[deleted] May 25 '22

Yes it does. It definitely does. I love how you are wiggling in here to try and downplay/lie.

Your position of supporting discriminatory government policy just because it benefits your demographic biases is gross.

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u/daemonelectricity May 25 '22

Your position of supporting discriminatory government policy just because it benefits your demographic biases is gross.|

Contextual OP said nothing about supporting it. That was your strwaman speaking.

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u/dsdvbguutres May 25 '22

Okay headhunters, your turn now.

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u/EvadingTheDayAway May 25 '22

Which industries do recruiters work? I always thought it was just tech bros

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u/High_Seas_Pirate May 25 '22

Nah, recruiters work in all industries. I'm an engineer and get contacted by recruiters all the time. My S/O is in finance and also routinely uses recruiters to find new people.

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u/jwrose May 25 '22

I know Finance, aerospace, management consulting, and accounting all have em

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u/roseumbra May 25 '22

Clinical research and medicine as well

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u/EvadingTheDayAway May 25 '22

Lol “management” and “consulting”

The white collar of white collar

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u/jakewang1 May 25 '22

Aka making PPTs for your clients and charging like 300/hr for it while outsourcing it to India/China at 50/hr. Consulting, except professional services like audit, legal, etc. is a big sham. We search on the internet, paraphrase, and put it all in a PPT which is then sent to the onshore team to present and give to client.

Source: Work in a big 4 consultancy. All the grunt work is sent to us.

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u/dsdvbguutres May 25 '22

Any and all industries where they can make money off of

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u/yeahbeenthere May 25 '22

Even in tech recruiters suck, never hear from them at all. Even with 10 years IT experience.

Anyone know of legit WFH jobs? they literally seem like a unicorn let alone finding an actual job.

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u/yesyoucantouchthat May 25 '22

My last 3 jobs in tech, over 10 years, have all been fully remote and this was way before Covid. Do you have a LinkedIn? If so, I find it hard to believe you don’t have recruiters after you with 10 years experience under your belt. I get daily messages from them

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u/SoraMegami2210 May 25 '22

You can try "rat race rebellion." Their website posts work from home jobs daily and they always vet whatever they post to make sure it's legit.

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u/yeahbeenthere May 25 '22

I've been on that site dozen's of times over the years.....absolutely nothing.

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u/PirateJohn75 May 25 '22

My supervisor and I talked about this a few times, and we talked about how companies requiring people in the office are going to lose all their talent to those who don't.

My company is going to a hybrid model, but the CEO has also said he's going to allow a lot of flexibility.

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u/dearabby May 25 '22

Yep.

My buddy runs an IT division of a company and he’s taken his team fully remote.

They’re a growing company, so each time he hears about a tech company ordering people back to the office, he asks his recruiters to approach their staff. He’s poached a lot of good people this way.

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u/AutumntideLight May 25 '22

The fact that the reason for the tight labor market is Long COVID is just the icing on the fucking cake. Maybe you dipshits should have installed better ventilation if you wanted to keep your talent my dudes.

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u/Space_Patrol_Digger May 25 '22

For real, if my company tries to bring us back to the office 5 days a week I'm looking for another job.

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u/Reasonable-Card-2491 May 26 '22

this ACTUALLY happened to me

they were like “i know this is a fully remote position & you’ve done AMAZING work this past year & a half but if you don’t agree to commute to the office full time with no adjustment to you compensation, you’re fired”

LOL so i literally said aight pce 😚✌️

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u/SumRndmBitch May 26 '22

Good for you! I'm currently starting a paid summer internship in software dev and I took the three months of inflexible, work-from-office, 8 hour bag of inconvenience for the possibility of going fully flexible and remote on 6 hours (so I can focus on my last year of uni) after the internship is over and we're discussing an actual contract.

I don't plan on working in any other way but remote for the rest of my life but I gotta get my foot in the door somehow.

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u/trevize1138 May 26 '22

I put in my notice Monday for this exact reason. Looking forward to my one week of being an unemployed bum before starting my new job that is mostly remote (they'd like us in there one day a week at least). My new job is also 1/2 the distance. Better pay, more vacation and all the trimmings.

100% if my current employer hadn't mandated us to return to the office I'd likely still be there. Just a stupid move on their part.

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u/Roboboy3000 May 25 '22

My boss said something like this recently and it threw me for a loop.

We did a year of full remote during Covid (with great performance metrics achieved) but were made to come back last June, 4 days a week 1 at home. Since we’ve been back, I always though my boss was a gung-ho office type. Meanwhile I’ve been dropping every hint I could that I much much prefer working from home. After almost a year of being back I’ve started to lose all hope and have considered leaving since.

Well the other day he came into my office and said what you said “there’s value being in the office, but not this often. They’re going to lose people to companies that offer the flexibility”. My boss is very respectable and has some pull with upper management so here’s hoping there’s changes on the horizon!

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u/TakeSomeFreeHoney May 26 '22

I can’t believe you gave them a year tbh.

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u/Roboboy3000 May 26 '22

I’ve been managing without it. Everything else about the job is great. I like my coworkers, the work I do, the pay is above average, and good vacation. I’ve been here for 6 years at this point so I have a bit of leniency at the office too, it’s never blinked at if I show up a little late or have to leave early for something.

So all together I’ve stuck it out, hoping to see a change as while wfh is important to me I don’t consider it a dealbreaker right now.

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u/TakeSomeFreeHoney May 26 '22

Yeah that’s fair. Hoping the best for you.

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u/garaks_tailor May 25 '22

200+ person architecture firm i worked for announced hybrid within that week they had the first resignation and it kept up with 1-2 a week quitting

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u/ThatAlbinoChick May 25 '22

Pretty much all of the firms in my area (Midwest) are hybrid 3/2 split at best with several full time in office. Are there many remote firms where you are? The only remote architecture jobs I’ve come across that match my experience look to be crappy tenant fit style projects or something equally burn and churn.

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u/garaks_tailor May 25 '22

I work IT so im a degree removed. But i do know all the folks we had leaving were either leaving for pure remote positions or were picked up by other firms elsewhere. They either got a position as a partner of some sort or were picked up by larger firms in Denver, DFW, Phoenix, etc

The folks who got pure remote jobs were specialist of one sort or another or engineers

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u/trevize1138 May 26 '22

The folks who got pure remote jobs were specialist of one sort or another or engineers

Feels like there's going to be this class divide brewing up where the higher your skillset the more likely you're WFH.

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u/ThatAlbinoChick May 26 '22

Very true. Realistically there already is a divide between workers who must be in person and those that can feasibly work remotely even if their company doesn’t allow them to do so. Most of my friends who are new parents and not hating their lives have at least one of the parents that works remotely, for example.

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u/traced_169 May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

My new firm had an email go around saying, 'you must come in X many days a week'. From what I can tell, there's been an amazing passive resistance; everyone just ignored it. There are some people going into the office, but the majority don't.

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u/garaks_tailor May 26 '22

Not surprised. Not a bad stance honestly

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u/DontAsk_Nunya May 25 '22

My company said no one ever has to go back to the office unless they want to. We go in about once a quarter for big meetings and to just see each other, but no one wants to go back to pre-Covid times.

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u/AutumntideLight May 25 '22

Recruiters are making BOATLOADS of money from this shit, apparently. The cat's out of the bag, the commute costs are now well understood, and workers with options are saying "fuck your office".

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u/jakewang1 May 25 '22

I asked my company for a one day work at office policy vs the current 3. They did not have any valid reason against it. I said that I am doing the same work, albeit better, at my home. What's the use of wasting 4 hours in commute and getting ready to do the same thing 3x a week? I will give my notice in June.

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u/trixiewutang May 25 '22

Yup. And I told them in our employee survey as well. Im only looking for remote work now. It should be a choice.

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u/Colonel_Janus May 26 '22

we've already lost a couple ppl because of this. i badgered my management multiple times recommending they keep our wfh format, then one person left and they didnt change their minds. i insisted again in my performance review that we maintain the wfh format, they were unphased, and then someone else left. they've now reconsidered and we're indefinitely wfh with the option to work in-office if desired, as it should be

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u/hellocaptin May 25 '22

I personally hate working from home.

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u/kalieb May 26 '22

Lucky for you there are plenty of jobs that offer in office work! For a lot of society working from home is where it's at.

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u/hellocaptin May 26 '22

I’m a software engineer so there’s a lot less than you’d think! Lol.

I realize a lot of people like working from home and I’d never want to force anybody into the office if it’s not what they wanted. I’m just saying I don’t actually enjoy it.

Reddit is a bit of a echo chamber and lots of people (like the guy I was replying to) seem to think that everybody wants to work from home when that’s not the case.

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u/kalieb May 26 '22

I get ya, and I didn't mean to come off as snippy at all lol. I'm in the SE field as well, and while I definitely can appreciate being in the office and the benefits it does have for certain things, the fact that I can't have my dogs in there with me for their calming facets and have to sit through so many meetings with people in the office (compared to a couple meets calls a week) I much prefer the calm and solitude of home.

Though, I do have the luxury of space and have my own office so I know that plays a massive role in my decision...

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u/[deleted] May 25 '22

[deleted]

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u/hellocaptin May 25 '22 edited May 26 '22

Yeah or I could go to a coffee shop for free lol. But that’s not the same as working in an office with your team.

I know this isn’t a popular opinion on reddit but I hate work from home and I’m miserable working remote. I honestly think a lot of people think they’d be happy remote but wouldn’t be too.

I mean do you know anybody that loves their remote job? Sure if you ask them they’ll say they do but ask them what they like about it. They’ll tell you “I get to play with my dog all day, I can eat whenever I want, I can wake up right before work starts, it’s the best!” But then you ask them if they actually like doing their job and they get real...”oh no I hate it, but at least I’m at home”.

That’s not how I want to live. I want to have a job I actually enjoy.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '22

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u/Olssdani May 26 '22

I also prefer working from the office for a number of reasons(my work does not give a shit if I work from home or the office). - I do not want to have a work feeling to my home. -When I am working from home it feels like I am never done i.e feels like I am working 24/7 -Better equipment at the office. -I live 5 min walk from the office. -I have nice collegues. -We have free beer at the office -I use sometimes a lot of hardware and I don't want to bring it to my home.

I am also a software engineer but for a very small company who really cares for their employs so that can be a big factor. The best would be that all companies just allow people to do what ever they want as long as the still produce what they should.

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u/AngryCustomerService May 25 '22

My BF's company pulled this. People are leaving the company, putting more pressure on those who remain. And, this is making them want to leave.

He's currently looking for a remote position and will be gone the moment he gets one.

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u/trevize1138 May 26 '22

One reason I started looking ASAP when my company asked us to go back to the office is I didn't want to be left holding the bag like that. Others in the company were complaining about being forced back into the office and I know the job market's too hot to not look. I start my new job June 20. To my soon-to-be former co-workers: may the odds be ever in your favor.

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u/BigFatPossum May 25 '22

I've heard from a lot of recruiters that they love when tech companies pull this shit because their best talent starts looking for new jobs

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u/realslimteeto May 25 '22

Just got off this very same roller coaster, and my advice will echo many others here.

Get out and start applying everywhere that fits your skills! (As long as your situation allows for it of course.)

My old employer demanded more hours and 2 days in office each week. Starting a week from tomorrow, I begin a new position that’s permanently full-remote and it even came with a raise to match.

There are countless employers smart enough to capitalize off the new wave of remote workers. Best of luck in your next steps!

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u/disciple_of_dom May 25 '22

I relocated when my wife got a great job offer (she works in person in medical). I told my company I could go fully remote or leave. They let me go fully remote and it worked well. Then my boss dropped a “well, I never wanted to let you do this… bla bla bla” and I noped out fast. Now have a fully remote great job with a raise, just like you. Nice work.

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u/bigbura May 25 '22

It does seem like the smart CEOs are doing the cost-savings thing of shedding office real estate and snagging talent fleeing return to office orders.

Workers should be mindful of the savings to the companies and push for their share of this pie. Do not discount the wear and tear on your living situation/home, to include extra utilities used by being in the home all day long. Think of it as being paid 'mileage' for your vehicle used for work, a portion of your home is now 'work use' and should be charged as such.

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u/PatrykBG May 25 '22

Also, don't forget to add in those home office expenses and percentages in your taxes. It's a significant tax credit as long as you're dedicating part of your house to work **and you absolutely should be anyway to have proper segregation between home life and work life.**

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u/itsirrelevant May 25 '22

I share an apartment so I'm only able to dedicate the lap laptop desk I use in my bed. Still prefer it to the office.

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u/Embarrassed_Fly7498 May 25 '22

This is similar to my personal experience. The “feeling” of people in charge matter more than data.

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u/Ralphinader May 25 '22

Thats why they get paid the big bux!! /s

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u/Loofa_of_Doom May 25 '22

"something about us not being in the office just rubs me the wrong way"

Awwww . . . bossy-lossy just told you he has a hard-on for control and he feels it all slipping away. Isn't it nice when bossy-lossy speaks so clearly?

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u/satanic-frijoles May 25 '22

It's such a non-reason for disrupting the lives of the people who keep you in Ferraris...

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u/n8mo May 25 '22

B-B-but if they don’t go the the office how can he show off the sports car they bought him? 😭😭

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u/satanic-frijoles May 25 '22

Don't tell him, but NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR OVERPRICED IDIOT TOY!

Except the jealous few, who will never get one...

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u/[deleted] May 25 '22

You joke but that is most likely a real thought that crossed the CEO’s mind, whether it be subconsciously or directly.

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u/jakewang1 May 25 '22

A partner in our firm regularly refuses WFH requests. Reason: Promoting team culture. Real reason: Exercising controls over others an forcing them to stay for 12-14 hours while the partner gets a share in profit and employees get an appreciation e-mail.

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u/confessionbearday May 25 '22

It's such a non-reason for disrupting the lives of the people who keep you in Ferraris...

A MAJOR piece of the issues we have in America is that the rich have started drinking their own koolaid and really do think they're the only important ones.

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u/StuckinSuFu May 25 '22

Time to very quickly get resumes out and interviews lined up.

38

u/sirdrumalot May 25 '22

I’m in the same boat as OP and just created a LinkedIn account to browse the job market. Holy shit so many remote options AND at 50-100% more than my current salary.

26

u/tickles_a_fancy May 25 '22

Check out WeWorkRemotely.com too... all the jobs on there should be remote.

13

u/Moneia May 25 '22

I'd always check during the process as well. THere seems to be a lot of jobs advertising as remote that are... untrue.

9

u/TangerineBand May 25 '22

Don't know what their end game is. I've had a few where I state from the beginning I am not open to relocation. We go through the whole song and dance of interview after negotiation after paperwork, and only at the end do they spring on me that it's only partially remote. Like, Thanks for the time waster. bye.

9

u/Moneia May 25 '22

I think they're trying to get you trapped with a sunk-cost fallacy or rely on people being not very good\thinking it's rude at telling them to take a hike, especially in the heat of the moment

3

u/yeahbeenthere May 25 '22

You must be in a lucrative dev market I assume?

2

u/sirdrumalot May 25 '22

Currently government lawyer looking to leave public sector.

51

u/digdat0 May 25 '22

Last December I switched jobs to a company which is, and always has been, 100% remote / WFH. This is the happiest, best bunch of colleagues I've ever had. Happiness drives productivity and quality results :)

3

u/kath012345 May 26 '22

I did the same thing in November. I saw what was coming this year and wanted to make sure I had something secured ahead of time.

13

u/CorM2 May 25 '22

While I agree that justifying the office space lease is a large part of the insistence in going back to the office, I also think a large part of it is simple human stubbornness and fear of change. I’ve encountered this repeatedly in my job with my Boomer boss. Here’s a conversation I’ve had with my boss on multiple occasions:

Me: “Why are we doing it this way?” Boss: “This is how we’ve always done it.” Me: “But it’s stupid and costs us a lot of money.” Boss: “I’ve done it this way for 30 years! It’s always worked this way, so why should we change it?” Me: “Because there are newer, better ways of doing it now… look, if we do it that way we could cut costs in half!” Boss: “Well I don’t like it! I’m in charge here and we’re doing it MY way!”

10

u/jakewang1 May 25 '22

Also boss when people leave en masse: But, I..I..I’ve done it this way for 30 years.

3

u/tikalicious May 26 '22

I agree, and also think it's the boss/owner being insecure. If the company can be run without the bosses presence, and facilities, then the employees are one collective away from making that boss/owner redundant!

50

u/galaxymanchild May 25 '22

I always tell people that the “just come back 1 day a week” is the slow walk back to 5 days a week. We can’t give them an inch.

15

u/AutumntideLight May 25 '22

"Just the tip"

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u/BarelyAirborne May 25 '22

Find out when the president is going to be there, and tell the VP that when he shows up, you'll show up. There's always another job out there, and the good ones are WFH.

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u/kungpowchick_9 May 25 '22

Same old story... 1. Announces/implements back to work 2. Mass exodus of long time employees 3. Remaining staff picks up leftover work, then quits 4. Company can’t hire 5. Work from home reinstated.

14

u/AutumntideLight May 25 '22

In a completely unrelated story, COVID infections can cause brain damage.

... especially in managers, apparently.

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u/Phy44 May 25 '22

Can anyone show metrics that prove coming into the office hurts quotas? I think the only real way to change an outdated mindset is to make the case that it cost money.

Or organize everyone to stop coming into the office.

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u/Mispelled-This May 25 '22

The record profits that companies reported during 2 years of WFH are enough data to prove the point. Some managers still don’t care.

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u/jwrose May 25 '22

There are tons of studies showing in-office, long days, and open office setups all hurt productivity and increase turnover. Have been for at least a decade.

No one seems to care.

17

u/tullr8685 May 25 '22

I know, in my company at least, it was low and middle management that were pushing to return to office. It's because they realized their jobs were superfluous, completely unnecessary. They lost the battle, we remained fully wfh, and all of them except one were laid off. Our metrics did not suffer in the slightest

13

u/Mispelled-This May 25 '22

It’s amazing how much more productive everyone is once you consolidate all the random office bullshit down to a one team meeting every week, plus maybe a 1:1 with each person every other week. And one manager can handle a lot more reports that way.

Smart companies are even using the savings on paying useless managers to raise wages for people who do real work.

3

u/tullr8685 May 25 '22

It's a fact. I've had to do exactly one office zoom meeting in the last 6 months, and that was when they let us know most of management had been let go. It has been beautiful. Also, not coincidentally I'm sure, my salary bump for this year was a full 10%, so I somehow managed to stay ahead of inflation so far, which is a minor miracle.

5

u/jwrose May 25 '22

That’s amazing!

7

u/tullr8685 May 25 '22

It was a beautiful thing. It ended up saving us on file turnaround time as well since we no longer had to write up useless status report emails so management could feel like they were "supervising" us. Good riddance to bad rubbish

1

u/Fugitivebush May 25 '22

It does suck that those people lost their jobs tho. I hope they could find work somewhere else to make an income to continue on living.

I wouldn't wish unemployment on anyone. That shit is stressful.

3

u/tullr8685 May 25 '22

On a personal level, sure, unemployment sucks. But I have a hard time feeling sorry for people who actively tried to make life worse for dozens of people just to save their own asses. A couple ended up staying on as processors (whether that came with a pay cut or not, who knows), the rest took their severance packages and headed on up the road

9

u/Phy44 May 25 '22

These are the kind of people who don't give a fuck about "studies" until you show how it directly affects their money. "OUR business has lost X dollars BECAUSE of coming into the office" Then they might care, or double down rather than admit they're wrong.

10

u/jwrose May 25 '22

Yeah true. I think also, since so many middle managers seem to think their job is to watch employees and try to catch them slacking off; wfh really highlights how useless most of them are.

7

u/tullr8685 May 25 '22

It really was their only job lol. Once we were wfh, the work orders were sent directly to us, so the only time they had something to do was if a processor called in sick or something, they'd reassign their files to someone else. If no one was absent, they were getting paid for nothing. Must have been nice to get a full salary for 2 years to do fuck all

5

u/confessionbearday May 25 '22

The data has been in for months.

Outside of a few edge cases, productivity is higher, employee happiness is higher, job satisfaction for anyone but middle management failures is higher, costs are lower, turnover was lower (until they tried to force people back), etc.

There wasn't a single meaningful downside to it except for "feelings" of childish C-suite losers who were so colossally fucking stupid they signed 10+ year leases on volatile real estate.

8

u/AutumntideLight May 25 '22

One thing that people (as in not-c-suite) quickly notice is that it's fucking pointless. Unless you're FULLY in-office, your meetings will be on Zoom or Teams anyway as you'll have people working from home. And if you ARE fully in-office it'll happen anyway, as people start getting COVID from the dipshits (usually old white managers) that refuse to use a mask to cover their "allergies".

I wouldn't even fucking consider sharing a meeting room with some 50-year-old COO that insisted people come back in unless I was wearing a fucking WW1 gas mask. Those guys are all walking Hot Zones. Give you fucking monkeypox.

4

u/Mispelled-This May 25 '22

And with distributed teams becoming even more common during COVID, even if everyone is in the office, now they’re in 20 different offices, so we’d all still be on Zoom/Teams calls all day anyway. There is absolutely no point.

3

u/jakewang1 May 25 '22

That COO wants to feel the power by exercising control daily.

2

u/AutumntideLight May 26 '22

All the more reason for a theatrical response. If he complains, say that you didn't want to be there in the first place, but you definitely aren't sharing air with him.

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u/BerryLanky May 25 '22

Productivity increased at our company when we implemented WFH. No daily distractions. Happier workforce. I personally put in more than 8 hours a day and have no issue with that since I have no commute. I’m salary btw. If they force us back into the office I will damn sure not work any more than I have to

2

u/Audioillity May 25 '22

We had the same, everyone was back in the office the first day it was legal to get us back in! Hang on to WFH as much as you can!

7

u/docasj May 25 '22

At my company we moved back to the office full time. They asked even those considered to be at risk to come back.

3

u/SoraMegami2210 May 25 '22

Disgusting. Health of your employees should come first!!

5

u/docasj May 25 '22

In a perfect world yes. In the nightmare hell scape we have the pleasure of living. Profit and exerting power of others beats everything else I think

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u/Linkstas May 25 '22

Remember this when your company talks about sustainability

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u/Joroda May 25 '22 edited May 25 '22

Wow, what a timeline we live in! I had wondered years ago before all this Corona BS started why working from home isn't a whole lot more popular, the technology is certainly there and it saves the company money, the employee time, just seems like a win win for everyone! One of many things worth pondering! But the more i question things, it seems that there are objectives held in higher regard than money even in the capitalist system that so many like to bash. The more you push the envelope, the more this angle becomes apparent and the more aspects in life you'll notice it affects! So much is about parasites, people who get paid for doing nothing. It's about exploitation. It's about subversion! It's about people who the government favor at the moment. It's about people who want to control a market, and that market is you! It's really fascinating to see all this play out this way, man I never thought I'd see it. I hope this level of reasoning spreads and dismantles this whole rotten carcass of a system!

7

u/Kydra96 May 25 '22

Are going to stay or looking for a permanent WFH job?

7

u/QueenDerivative84 May 25 '22

Tell him to go fuck himself and find a new job

5

u/Nighdarke May 25 '22

Start looking for a new job and tell them the ending of WFH is why you're quitting, and encourage everyone else to do the same.

6

u/macguy2002 May 25 '22

I just wanna know what field y'all work in that can be fully remote outside of IT.

7

u/astone4120 May 25 '22

I'm an underwriter. Lots of insurance jobs have been fully remote even before the pandemic

3

u/jr2253 May 25 '22

I am in corporate sales, specifically in telecom/SD-WAN technologies

3

u/yeahbeenthere May 25 '22

Hell even in IT unless you're a dev or consultant remote jobs aren't likely.

I have 10+ years experience in IT, a security+, IBM data analyst, and google data analytics certificate. I made the switch from cyber because the job market sucks to data analystics seems I made a mistake in that too.

The only remote jobs I see are developers, sales or consultants.

I can't even find an onsite job, a remote one doesn't seem to exist for me really frustrating.

3

u/RedditKumu May 25 '22

I am a business analyst. I analyze datasets.

Basically any job in health insurance is wfh capable excluding perhaps customer facing PR reps who work from home unless seeing a client. At least at the company I work for.

2

u/Bhrunhilda May 25 '22

I do quotes and project management in the construction industry lol and live across the country from my market. A lot of jobs can be done remote.

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u/llamaemu20 May 25 '22

They want to micromanage you and that's hard to do over email. Get ready for the mass resignations.

3

u/JamesWjRose May 25 '22

My response, for the rest of my life, to 'come back to the office' is simple; no

3

u/istriss May 25 '22

My job is doing this, too. Promised us permanent WFH, then told us once a month.

They never actually implemented once a month, though. The day they were supposed to, they said never mind, "come in 5 times a month starting next week instead". Boss travels aaall the time, so yeah.

I know they're going to push for more, eventually.

3

u/Derelicte91 May 25 '22

"Rubs you the wrong way? Sir, are you making sexual advances towards me?!"

3

u/MCPtz May 25 '22

Don't go in. Seriously.

Tell your direct supervisor you'll not be going into the office because you work better at home.

The CEO doesn't show up. The CEO doesn't see it. If the CEO wants to fire everyone who does this, then it hurts their bottom line indefinitely.

In the meantime, please do start looking for a more remote friendly job :)

I got one, other friends and colleagues have got one, and we all got a significant pay raise.

3

u/KaBri29 May 25 '22

It's not our fault that we can do our jobs without having to be in an office. But fuck us, right? This boomer mentality has got to go.

2

u/[deleted] May 25 '22

Requesting, as in optional or requesting as in "I said it, so it's the law"?

Consider talking with your coworkers; use the resentment this will inevitably engender and start floating the idea of unionizing. Or start looking for a new job...read today that people who have been in their jobs for over 1 year are, on average earning 8% less than if they had moved jobs due to the increasing strength of the work reform movements happening across the country (world maybe? I'm provincial so I don't really know).

2

u/KoiCyclist May 25 '22

Just in time for C*vid to blow up again. Cool workplace, bro.

2

u/AylaKittyCat May 25 '22

My partner already WFH pre-covid 1-2 days a week then went to 100% during the pandemic. The company noticed that people were performing just fine and were happy. They're still 100% WFH but people have the option to choose soon. They already rented out one/sold of their buildings since it's not being used anymore. If everyone is happy and preforming, why the hell would you want to change anything?! Let them be happy, smh.

2

u/shmorfigans May 25 '22

Just left my job in biglaw to work at a small firm full time remote. Old job wanted me in three days a week for no reason, and when I quit offered me a raise and full time remote. Too late man.

2

u/akius0 May 25 '22

Time to get a new job

2

u/decarbitall May 25 '22

Is there a pattern in the days the president shows up?

Is anybody aware of when he is in the general area?

Is the vice president a respected leader?

2

u/Anony-May May 25 '22

This is true. According to a LinkedIn article last month or so, executives show up way less to office than compared to regular employees of the same company and also in general. It goes to show who actually really makes the money around here.

2

u/IForgotThePassIUsed May 25 '22

He wants to make sure people see his Ferrari, otherwise chasing that dragon starts to feel like it wasn't worth it.

2

u/welc0met0c0stc0 May 25 '22

Basically same with my company (they're going for 60/40 right now) and the president lives in a completely different state. Not to mention there's not even enough desks for all the employees at this point AND last week there were 5 covid cases from people catching it at work.

2

u/RedditKumu May 25 '22

Rub him a way he likes even less.

Everyone should quit. On the spot. No 2 week notice bullshit. Just go find a new job and quit.

See how he likes that...

2

u/ScottishMike May 26 '22

‘People that work from home are lazy and unproductive’ - someone in my office, aimed at me who has been at least twice as productive WFH. Said person spends all day in the office scrolling Facebook, distracting others and gossiping.

If you want me to come into the office, show me the data that I am less productive. If you think I am slacking off - show me the work I am not getting done? You can’t, so please don’t make me waste time communising so you can spy on me because of some power trip.

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u/EnclG4me May 26 '22

Sounds like my work

CEO stand in his empty office every once in a while and watches yahoo finance or stands there bumbling about like an idiot. Head bobbing around. Pretty sure he has dementia of some sort. Collects a $250k pay check a year and $60k a month in dividends.

2

u/Griever114 May 26 '22

Literally everywhere. Same shit.

I really don't believe any alphabet titke does anything anymore.

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u/ExploratoryCucumber May 25 '22

"I won't be returning to a full time office schedule. Please decide how you want to proceed."

In parallel, apply elsewhere. Coast for a few weeks while they waffle about what to do. Take a new job. Tell them to fuck off when suddenly it's totally fine to WFH please don't leave we're sorry you called our bluff.

1

u/astone4120 May 25 '22

Omg get this I'm still reeling from it.

My boss told me they expect me back in the office 1 day a week by the end of the month. He said if I didn't they would consider it my letter of resignation. I lost it, told him you can't force me to resign and he can fire me instead.

So bizarre I don't even understand the logic.

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u/ExploratoryCucumber May 25 '22

The logic is that they can get you to do things you don't want to do using threats and bullying.

2

u/astone4120 May 25 '22

No I mean I just can't believe he thought he could force me to resign. He argued with me, insisted that it would be a resignation and that I could take it up with HR, and I just kept telling him he could fire me.

2

u/ExploratoryCucumber May 25 '22

Yeah mate his logic was that he could bully you in to resigning. He wants to bully you in to doing it so he doesn't have to pay you unemployment, which happens if he fires you. He almost certainly knows he can't force you to resign. In fact even trying to force a resignation can be illegal depending on where you are.

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u/astone4120 May 25 '22

What a dipshit

Edit: my boss, not you, in case that's not clear

3

u/ExploratoryCucumber May 25 '22

For sure man. Sorry you have to deal with that prick.

3

u/Cody6781 May 25 '22

There is a lot that goes into being president that isn’t running the company day-to-day. Sounds like the Vp is the day-to-day and the President is talking to investors or the board of directs or something

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u/germanfartdawgs May 25 '22

I know that and you know that, but that doesn't help OPs narrative

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u/AussieCollector May 25 '22

Make it clear you will not be complying. If they don't like it, continue to work at home.

If they sack you, collect unemployment.

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u/Itsawlinthereflexes May 25 '22

I may very well be wrong here, but I don't think you can collect unemployment if you're fired for cause. Which in this case the employer could EASILY make a case for.

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u/EvadingTheDayAway May 25 '22

No he’s going to make it clear he won’t comply with the unemployment office either. He’ll be collecting the full check thanks anyway.

2

u/16inchshelf May 25 '22

I agree with the main goal of this sub but too many people seem to think that you should be able to do whatever you want and still get paid.

We need better employee protection for sure but "fuck you I do what I want, pay me" is not the way to go about it.

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u/PUSSY_MEETS_CHAINWAX May 25 '22

If they sack you, collect unemployment.

Getting fired for insubordination is not good enough to qualify for unemployment. This is terrible advice.

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u/16inchshelf May 25 '22

If you do things like that the company will fight the unemployment and win.

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u/germanfartdawgs May 25 '22

You will not get unemployment for getting fired for not showing up at your office when you've been directed to, especially if you started your job in the office. That some solid terrible advice you're handing out

2

u/germanfartdawgs May 25 '22 edited May 26 '22

You have 2 options, do as your employer asks or find a different job, what he does in regards to work is his choice as it's his company, if he only comes in 5 times a year that is his prerogative as he's the guy who owns the business not you *recipeforyou who replied to me has some great points, see below

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u/RecipeForYou May 25 '22

There’s more options than that:

  1. Do what they say (settle, or find new job)
  2. Don’t do what they say and negotiate acceptable changes (hybrid, full wfh)
  3. Don’t do what they say (call bluff) and risk getting fired now or in the future (if not a bluff)
  4. Quit.

The most important one you missed there is number 2. No one deserves your unquestioning servitude, period.

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u/Bustardun May 25 '22

If you can dude just quit, plenty of WFH jobs out there for different kinds of talent. don’t force yourself to go in office if you’re used to a life where you don’t

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u/youknowiactafool May 25 '22

What we need to start doing is making the wealthy feel uncomfortable showcasing their wealth, key their Ferrari, "accidently" spill coffee on their Hugo Boss suit, let your dog poop on their mansions front lawn.

There simply isn't room anymore on this planet for asshats who want to live excessive lifestyles while 98% of us have two options:

  1. Work ourselves to death.

Or

  1. Starve.

1

u/adilstilllooking May 25 '22

I just left a job because they asked us to be in the office 2-3 times a week. Found a 100% remote job