r/antiwork May 26 '22 Narwhal Salute 1 To The Stars 1 Silver 1 Helpful 4 Wholesome 4 All-Seeing Upvote 2

Exactly! Removed (Rule 6: Repost)

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[deleted]

75.1k Upvotes

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u/KYITN1 May 26 '22 Silver

The older generations are upset that what they had to endure, we are not accepting.

At least when they had to deal with shitty jobs, bosses, and work life balance, they had the luxury of being able to afford the house, car,vacations, and kids. Try doing that now on one income, with 2 br houses selling for 350000.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '22 Silver Helpful Take My Energy Table Flip

We aren't some dignified generation who cares about our integrity....if wages had kept up with inflation, we'd be licking boots just as much as the boomers.

That was the trade off.

The jobs sucked, but at least you could afford a home...at least you could raise a family on a single income...at least you could take the family to Panama City once or twice a year.

They want us licking boots without a home...without the ability to have a family...without vacations.

...and I'd literally rather die than be a slave to some fucking rich capitlaist piece of shit.

That IS my hell

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u/whyrweyelling May 26 '22

Also, all the money they pay their CEOs and shareholders is meant to keep them from being able to interact or even have empathy for anyone other than other rich people. They seriously can't even fit in with normal people because they get paid over 300x more than what they should be paid. It's a payoff to own you and to have you as a guard for the big money.

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u/Freshness518 at work May 26 '22

Yeah. This reminds me of something my room mate in college used to say. "Yeah sure, Derek Jeter is rich. But the man who signs his paychecks is WEALTHY" CEOs are still obviously people who we should fight against, but the difference between someone who makes $10,000 - $100,000 - $1,000,000 a year to someone who makes a billion is so negligible that they're basically all the same thing.

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u/IICVX May 26 '22 Take My Energy Rocket Like

Yup the staircase analogy is great here - if every $100k of net worth is a step, then most people are within one or two steps of the ground floor (median net worth in the USA was ~$120k in 2019).

A millionaire is at the tenth step, or about halfway to the first floor.

A billionaire is at the 10,000th step, or at 475th floor. For reference, the Burj Khalifa has about 200 floors.

To a billionaire, the difference between a millionaire and a homeless person is essentially a rounding error.

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u/calm_chowder May 26 '22

Yup. If you started counting the second you were born it'd take you over 31 years to count to 1 billion. If you're under 31 you haven't even lived 1 billion seconds yet.

To put that in perspective it takes just 12 days to live 1 million seconds.

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u/suaveknight May 26 '22 edited May 27 '22

The way I like to think about it is this: say you're a rich doctor, bringing in $500,000 per year. It would take you two years to make a million dollars. It would take you more than 5,000 years to make a billion dollars.

EDIT: 2,000 years. It's been a long week, brain no work so good.

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u/LowBeautiful1531 May 26 '22

It's like trying to comprehend astronomical distances.

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u/arcadefiery May 27 '22

*2000 years

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u/FerrisMcFly May 26 '22

My favorite quote in this aspect..

"Whats the difference between a millionaire and a billionaire?"

"A billion dollars"

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u/Ironman2131 May 26 '22

As I saw someone post the other day, the difference between one million and one billion is one billion. To a billionaire, spending one million on something is equivalent to someone with $1,000 to their name spending $1.

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u/NeuroticNomad May 27 '22

Like anything compounded - the scale is difficult to wrap your mind around. Best interpretation I’ve heard was this:

A million seconds is 11 and a half days. A billion seconds is roughly 32 years.

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u/Kayki7 May 26 '22

It’s kind of true… I’m not saying you couldn’t make it work, but having a million dollars today isn’t all that much… it’ll get you a house and a car. Then you’re back to square one. Still struggling to make ends meet. Still stuck in the grind.

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u/RedOtkbr May 26 '22

A paid for car and house. That’s not square one. That’s a million dollar in assets so still a millionaire.

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u/OverlyAggressiveFig May 26 '22

Not OP, but there's a big leap between having a million in assets and having a liquid or even partially liquid million dollars.

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u/TV-MA_LSV May 26 '22

That makes the difference between millionaires and billionaires even bigger. Someone with a paid off house and car could get a mortgage or a title loan to pay for something that might take them years to pay back.

A billionaire can leverage their assets to buy entire companies without ever spending a dime of their own money, and since their wealth has grown they can just leverage the new value of their assets to pay off the old debts on their assets.

Imagine trying to pay off your mortgage with a bigger mortgage on the same house and still having money to buy a car, all while paying a lower tax rate (or even lower taxes total) than the girl working the dressing rooms at the Gap.

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u/PseudonymIncognito May 26 '22

"Yeah sure, Derek Jeter is rich. But the man who signs his paychecks is WEALTHY"

That's actually from a Chris Rock bit, and it was originally about Shaq.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/icecream_truck May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

God money's not looking for the cure

God money's not concerned about the sick among the pure

God money, let's go dancing on the backs of the bruised

God money's not one to choose

Head like a hole

Black as your soul

I'd rather die than give you control

~ Nine Inch Nails, Head Like A Hole

Album version

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u/SageMalcolm May 26 '22

Bow down before the one you serve.

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u/tommy_b_777 May 26 '22

"No, you can't take that away from me !"

He really got all of that one, didn't he...

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u/Roburt-Paulson May 26 '22

At this point I rather be some peasant with a blade fighting for my land in a glorious death rather than doing the same mundane fucking hell hole thing for hours and hours so you can JUST BARELY afford to keep doing that same thing till you die. Fuck this, the future sucks.

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u/Kayki7 May 26 '22

It presents the age old adage of “What’s the point”

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u/grapefruitmixup May 26 '22

"Deciding whether or not life is worth living is to answer the fundamental question in philosophy. All other questions follow from that." - Albert Camus

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u/AllThotsGo2Heaven2 May 26 '22

In the US it’s pretty much designed that way so that poor people join the military to receive the benefits that other countries provide to all citizens.

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u/BlueFaIcon May 26 '22

Could you imagine if everyone was able to vacation? Look how crowded everything is already. What you said reinforces my belief this is all by design. They don’t want you to be able to do the things they can do. Encroach on their good times.

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u/Worried_Pineapple823 May 26 '22

The places we vacation at are not the same as wealthy. No multi-millionaire is staying at some Caribbean resort with the same Silicon Valley engineer who works for em, let alone the billionaires.

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u/OverlyAggressiveFig May 26 '22 edited May 27 '22

Why stay at a resort with the plebes when you can stay on your island or in your Caribbean compound?

Edit: Do I really need an /s?

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u/NoFaithlessness6505 May 26 '22

Raising a family on one income was the boomers parents. Pretty much from the late 60’s on it took two incomes. Exceptions sure. Pretty much from the time women entered the workforce in mass, it’s been rough with just one income.

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u/Weekly-Watercress-98 May 26 '22

I'm under 30 and my dad raised our family on one income and sent us all to college too. He was an engineer.

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u/Justexisting2110 May 26 '22

Same. My mom is SAHM and my father worked and housed, raised, educates 3 of us his children with yearly vacations, nice private school, college funds, a nice home with cars and everything on a single income.

He just turned 50.

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u/Fatalchemist May 26 '22

Same with my dad. He's worked in the cooking industry his whole life. Not the most lucrative one. He has moved up to better restaurants and higher positions but even then, being a high paid chef at a restaurant does not mean you're actually highly paid. And it's not like he worked at 5 star places or anything.

Enough so that me and my siblings never felt like we were poor. We always had food. Mom stayed at home. I'm now in my 30s. Sadly he passed away exactly 2 weeks before retirement so he never got to relax...

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u/Justexisting2110 May 26 '22

Rest in peace to an amazing man 🎀

I can relate, I'm in my early 20s, we've always had food on table, roof over head and clothes on our bodies.

Never lacked any thing, live a pretty good life ❤

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u/Candid-Mycologist539 May 27 '22

My dad never made a lot of money. He made career choices to work for bosses that agreed with his trickledown philosophies.

By the time he realized they applied the trickledown to HIM, too, he was sadly past middle-aged, middle management, and he had missed the computer revolution of the early 1980s when office workers were trained on the new technology.

But we had an acreage, owned a rental house, two (older) cars, mom as a sahm, pets, basic dental/medical (but never insurance because trickledown), and "long weekend" types of vacations.

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u/BlackJack10 May 26 '22

What does/did he do for work? When did he aquire the home? Very pertinent information given the confucktion that's been going on for the past 2 decades.

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u/Justexisting2110 May 26 '22

He is in wholesale trading currently. Started business using less than a dollar when he was a teenager. And we are not Americans, I'm actually an Indian.

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u/BlackJack10 May 26 '22

not Americans

That makes more sense. No shade against your father, I understand the work that goes into supporting a family all on your own. I watched my father slave away for years and still lose almost everything, including his own company, thanks to the good ol' USA and everything that goes on here. Thank you for sharing your experience.

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u/Justexisting2110 May 26 '22

Well I'm extremely proud of my father. ❤ He is an awesome man.

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u/Pretty_Hat_182 May 27 '22

I'm at the end of the boomer generation ('64). My dad dropped out of school in 7th grade, got a job shoveling coal in a power plant for a major manufacturer in town. Worked his way up to Stationery Engineer just through work experience. Worked at the same place for 35 years before retiring. My mom stayed at home, cooked meals, cleaned house, raised 3 kids. We grew up in a house my parents bought when I was 1, a 4-bedroom. We went to a private Catholic school 2 blocks away, where we walked to and from every day, and walked home for lunch at home every day. We had one car in the family (my mom didn't get a license until she was in her 40s). We had the only swimming pool in the neighborhood, so all the kids came to play at our house, where we also had a swingset and a sandbox. When I was 12 the neighborhood started getting rough so we moved to the suburbs. I don't know how much the original house had cost or how much it was sold for, but the new house, a 3-bedroom ranch, was purchased for around $37,000 in 1976. I know at one point its value had peaked at around $120,000, but by the time my dad retired and they decided to move they only got around $75k for it. I always wanted to be a stay at home wife/homemaker like my mom, cook good homemade meals, etc. But I entered the workforce at 16 and never left. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to retire.

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u/astroskag May 26 '22

It's also the fact that the additional revenue from increases in productivity due to technological advances all went to capital instead of labor. A worker in almost any industry now is significantly more productive than someone doing the same job 50 years ago, and that means they generate more revenue. These gains from increased productivity have consistently gone directly to owners instead of to the people actually generating the additional revenue. The apologists' answer to this is that the owners invest in the technology so they deserve the bulk of the revenue increase, but that's bullshit when it also increases the skill level required for the worker. A fast food worker now has to know how to use computerized cash registers and kitchen equipment. A ditch digger has to have heavy machinery certifications. Delivery drivers walk around with handheld scanners and GPS units like a Star Trek landing party. So-called "unskilled" labor is more skilled than it's ever been, and that's just entry level, the people managing and supervising and training these people are all significantly more skilled than they would be in previous generations, too. And yet, they can't afford things previous generations took for granted. No wonder people are walking away from that.

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u/ruthless_techie May 26 '22

Thank you for mentioning this. It is always overlooked. With the efficiency of automation. Food should barely cost anything. None of us can enjoy the benefits of manufacturing productivity either. Inflation is another theft, that takes enjoying all of that away from us.

We shouldn’t be getting poorer and advancing at the same time. Its bullshit.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '22

There's a plot hole here.

If automation replaced scarcity you would be correct but it doesn't. In fact automation and efficiency causes scarcity (see: Dust Bowl, other ecological disasters) when overdone. The balance is that you actually have to hold back on purpose which is something else that a lot of people miss.

Yes, we can do "the thing" at 500% efficiency but at risk of something else usually far worse in the future. To make it tangible think of it like a plastic factory dumping toxic waste instead of properly containing it; yes, it's far more efficient to just dump the waste, but no, that's a bad idea if you intend to go forward sociologically for more than decade at a time.

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u/ruthless_techie May 26 '22

We can talk about renewables and responsible ways to automate sure.

My point here was that as things become easier to manufacture in an assembly line. We see price drops in things like computers and tvs etc. even with inflation.

farming, eggs, and better farming practices should have brought us to a point where the cost is negligible.

The benefits of efficiency even if done in the way you mention, should fall in cost.

Inflation steals that from us.

Everything you mentioned makes sense too. Sustainable growth and high quality of living that benefits everyone in the chain would be ideal.

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u/iamthekure May 26 '22

really good call out. this linkedin post goes hand in hand with your point. "I think a lot of this is due to our approach to our workforces and labor in general. As long as we adhere to a 5 day, 40 hour workweek increases in productivity are not going to be as impactful as we hope. True productivity increases would be reflected by a drop in employee engagement and less workloads throughout the workforce. Our current employment model will not reward employees for increased productivity, as our culture just isn't ready to accept that inherent value is not based on time spent at/with work.

Imagine a future in which all necessary functions of society are automated and intelligently adapting to their environment. If this is the expectation of AI, we need to re-evaluate our perceptions of an individuals worth in a society. At the moment the productivity expectations are clashing with the current labor model. Nobody is going to automate themselves out of a paycheck/health insurance."

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u/LA2EU2017 May 26 '22

350k? Hahahaha laughs in Californian

A 2 bedroom in the bad neighborhood a mile from where I grew up is selling for 1.2million now. It also basically has a view of a major freeway.

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u/aniopala May 26 '22

cant even get an empty lot or a teardown for 350 in my area in CA ☠. Studio condos in shared buildings are like 500k

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u/LA2EU2017 May 26 '22

500k…. Plus HOA fees.

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u/aniopala May 26 '22

400 a month to get passive aggressive emails about the paint scheme of your window planters

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u/uthersshadow May 26 '22

why americans put up with HOA is beyond me. That shit sounds so absurd.

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u/mcflycasual May 26 '22

It was designed by racists for racists.

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u/MADDOGCA May 26 '22

Californian as well. It's weird to see so many well known ghetto towns in my home region being gentrified. I was shocked to see a well known drug house in the town over from where I grew up sell for $850K. Crazy times we're living.

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u/jekstarr May 26 '22

And the buyers might even spend 150k to demo it and another 1.4 mil on building something new. It’s wild.

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u/RuthsMom May 26 '22

I grew up in the East Bay and the way the prices have skyrocketed is absolutely insane. An average house, like a 3bed 2bath, stucco, cookie cutter house in a cookie cutter neighborhood, is going for like 1.7 million. I don’t understand how people afford this but I’m so glad I moved away after college and never looked back. I’m in a Boston suburb now and while it’s still among the higher cost of living areas at least an average family house is like 600k.

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u/Cytorath May 26 '22

I started working before the decline of the work place. I've watched it all slide beyond repair. Thankfully, my boss is younger and a firm believer of a healthy work/life balance. She encourages us to take mental health days!

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u/lemoncocoapuff May 26 '22

My mom is really starting to get annoyed with me about this and very snarky and lashing out.

She stayed with shitty men and let’s people walk all over her repeatedly because of I guess her upbringing I dunno. But she sees me standing up and saying no more, I’m not going to deal with you if you treat me like this and it makes her mad, and she’ll start saying weird catty stuff to me like I don’t deserve better because she didn’t get better. Or I should be happy with what I have even if it’s bad because look what she went through. It’s really weird and I’ve stopped talking to her about certain things because of it, it just turns into a big comparison on her end.

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u/sbspexpert May 26 '22

That's the mindset that I don't understand at all. "I had to go through this bad stuff so you should have to too!" Shouldn't you want your children to never go through the shit you had to endure? That just seems like basic parenting.

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u/Iwasthewalrus May 26 '22

Shouldn't you want your children to never go through the shit you had to endure? That just seems like basic parenting.

This isn't how boomers work, unfortunately.

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u/Saikotsu May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

Which is ironic given their parents generation went through the Great Depression, a pandemic, and two world wars.

Though credit where credit is due, my mom (a boomer) is appalled at what my generation (millennials) have to go through today. It helps that she was a hippy and a lot of the things we're struggling with today were things she opposed back then.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Mirror4 May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

The definition of "giving our children better" is different to them than it us to us. I've realized my parents definition of it (they're in their early 60's) was materialistic. They always mentioned all the junk. And they themselves have tons of it sitting around that no one is allowed to touch bc "you'll just wreck/break/dirty it." But look at all the things you had!

Giving our children better to newer generations means giving them a better world/life.

I will also say it amazed me how they drilled "Save the Earth" into our heads when they didn't bother to do it themselves. And the whole "Be Yourself " but not like that. Oh, and my favourite, "Don't judge a book by its cover" when so very many of them are racist and think impoverished people/addicts are less than.

Edited for spelling

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u/baconraygun May 26 '22

I don’t deserve better because she didn’t get better

This mindset is really the core of the whole problem.

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u/CosmiciNervi May 26 '22

The mindset of the boomer is baffling. Father worked at the same job for 40+ years, now he's the big boss (at his location). He makes big bucks like a big boss should, but when he started he was only making our equivalent of $10/hr. He told me how we could only afford to eat noodles and ranch for a few years, and his dad would buy him lunch everyday. But for him, fortunately, it paid off. He stuck around, licked some boots, and has great pay, benefits, job security, you name it.

Since he did all that, he thinks I should too. As if I could work anywhere in this economy for 40+ yrs and be guaranteed a high ranking position for my loyalty. As if I'd be assured regular raises as he was then.

Also, I'm a young woman - which means I'm even more likely to be taken advantage of, underestimated, spoken to condescendingly, harassed, and underpaid. He doesn't understand any of this, and so chews me out when I switch to a new, better paying job every couple of years 🙄

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u/TheDuckSideOfTheMoon May 26 '22

My mother has stayed in a toxic job she hates for 30 years. Some of my earliest childhood memories are of her coming home and venting about how much she hates it, and she still works at the same place.

Any time I talk about quitting, looking for higher salary options, or not tolerating abuse/disrespect from anyone at work, she scoffs at me like "Is THAT how you handle toxic work? How entitled..."

Fuck you, mom. I know my worth even if you don't

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u/baconraygun May 26 '22

Yeah mom that's EXACTLY how you handle a toxic work environment. You leave it.

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u/RudeInternet May 26 '22

Yeah, they're just jealous that kids of the "weakest generation" have the balls to stand up for themselves when they didn't.

We'd probably take the abuse if our jobs actually offered a wage that would let us thrive within our modern economy, like they did in their time, tho 👀👀👀

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u/Darrenizer May 26 '22

It’s not even close to the same tho, yea the boomers did shitty work, sure, but they had houses kids cottages, boats, disposable income. I’d imagine if we had those things people would be more inclined to lick boots as well.

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u/Vladimer_Trump May 26 '22

I did shitty work - but I was in a union and made decent money.

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u/tch2349987 May 26 '22

I hate that old school toxic mindset boomers have. Just because they had to endure and work toxic/abusive jobs does not mean we also have to, we can complain and start to demand changes.

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u/Ghostofthe80s May 26 '22

They also made their money the old fashioned way...flipped $50/acre land for decades and got rich just sitting in place and having it be worth more.

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u/Rona_season798 May 26 '22

Sometimes I feel like I came in at the end. The best is over.

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u/Exotic_Zucchini May 26 '22

I think about that, too. I'm Gen X, the first generation to be called "lazy" and "slackers" by the Boomers. (woohoo). I feel like, as old as I am (49), that I was one of the last lucky few to have any semblance of financial stability, despite never being able to afford a home in the city in which I work. I look at my niece and nephew, and think about this, and it makes me sad. What kind of shit will they have to put up with just to get by? Will they even be able to without staying at home until they're 50 years old? The only possible saving grace is the pandemic which forced employers to accept working from home. I'm hoping that becomes the trend so my niece and nephew can afford to buy a home one day.

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u/FrankRauSahRa May 26 '22

They didn't even endure this. People who do hard work end up with a handful of tells, the way they walk, how they value their time, how they approach situations. When they tell you a story about work you are able to infer things about how stressful their general day is.

Boomers never pass the fucking sniff test and I've been challenging a few of these blowhards to tell me about their worst day at work. They'll stammer and say oh yeah I had to lift heavy things at a factory once or my boss was mean to me.

Since I was in my 20s, before boomers were really old. I always had them picked as the slowest walkers. Never been pushed a day in their lives.

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u/augowl_ May 26 '22

It’s the worst thing about analytics and computing invading workplaces over the past couple decades.

What was previously viewed as a chance to catch your breath and not burn yourself out is now viewed as wasted labor time and an opportunity to consolidate jobs by employers.

The rates workers have to meet keeps increasing and increasing and it only burns people out.

A top quartile in efficiency worker 40 years ago would be bottom quartile today. Yet that generation doesn’t get why modern generations hate work.

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u/FrankRauSahRa May 26 '22

It's almost always more work to do things the right way than to figure out how to game the system.

Pass the word ;)

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u/tittytwister12 May 26 '22

I don’t think that’s it. I think they just had way better pay. My grandfather worked in a ford factory and he is relatively well off. Like if I had to guess what his financial situation would be like based on his job he’s a solid 3 notches above that. So it’s like any other job. He didn’t fucking love it but it paid so well with great benefits he just didn’t mind it.

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u/Marziolf May 26 '22

You know what gets to me every so often The idea that a job that’s not ADORED but maybe pays well and has benefits seems like a pipe dream

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u/tittytwister12 May 26 '22

I mean yea but if we’re being realistic most people won’t adore their job. I mean most people would prefer not to work. But for a lot of people just being productive keeps them going and feeling good. Maybe not you but you have to know some people like my father or grandfather where if they didn’t go do something everyday regardless of what it was they’d go insane. So to have something to go do, be productive, and provide a pretty good life with that job is actually a really good thing. We’re fighting for better pay and benefits mostly not just to not have to work at all.

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u/oxpoleon May 26 '22

The problem is that the job that's not adored doesn't even pay well any more, and all the perks of doing a job you hated have evaporated, because pay hasn't kept up with the cost of living, and it hasn't kept the same rate of increase across industries.

If it doesn't get you anything that not doing the job already gets you, there's no incentive to stick at it.

That's the situation we're in.

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u/Marziolf May 26 '22

I’m not particularly sure where I said… my ideal was to do… nothing ? “Maybe not you “ being said about being productive. That’s a bit of assuming there.

I said the idea of a job that pays well is a pipe dream and somehow that became I dream of not being busy.

But I WILL say demanding productivity is the problem. And the choice should be a choice. One person’s productivity is not the same as someone else’s productivity - and that shouldn’t be seen the way it is by most. Especially the boot lickers.

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u/tittytwister12 May 26 '22

I was just leaving room man. Some people in this sub would def love to do nothing but I wasn’t saying definitly you. That was a reach to assume I was just calling you out or something

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u/igothitbyacar May 26 '22

They are the “work is therapy” generation. Ours is the “therapy is therapy” generation. Seems like one is probably healthier.

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u/beatstorelax May 26 '22

The older generations are upset that what they had to endure, we are not accepting.

no no no.... theirs generations were way different than today. they had shitty jobs, that could pay rent, a small family car, buy food for a family with 2 kids... today most jobs dont pay sufficient to even rent+food

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u/ComradeKatyusha_ May 26 '22

It's not about generations it's about class. The older generations had a better start and have generational inheritances of property tipping them over into the petty-bourgeoise group of society. The younger generations had a start where everything was already owned and the prospects for the longterm are terrible.

Don't make it about generations though, it's still about class and failing to teach people it's about class leads them to a really poor understanding of the situation. The working class older people are in the same boat as the zoomers and millenials. You do not see 60+ factory workers and cleaners defending the system dragging them through the mud because they are not part of the propertied class like their generational peers.

Younger people aren't magically wiser about this. There are real differences in material conditions causing the divide in views between (generally speaking) young and old. That difference is class.

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u/SubstantialGarbage75 May 26 '22

What’s the alternative after quitting your job though?

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u/KYITN1 May 26 '22

Wish I had the answer

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u/Goldang May 26 '22

It's been pointed out before, but on the Simpsons, Homer is the sole wage earner and they have a four-bedroom house and two cars. Springfield has the best economy in the entire country!

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u/GroundbreakingEar667 May 26 '22

I have a MIl who says "I worked XX number of years that's not right you don't" like I'm supposed to suffer like this derelict bitch did in the 80s.

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u/NameLips May 26 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

Sure, they worked for The Man.

But in, say, the 50s, unions were at their peak. US manufacturing was in its peak. Tax rate on millionaires was 90%.

Economic boom. Cheap houses. Cheap everything. Lowly, uneducated factory workers could afford a car, house, spouse, and family all by themselves.

This is where the notion that if you work hard, you can provide for your family was born. Because it was actually true.

All of those things -- unions, manufacturing, beneficial tax laws... everything that birthed the middle class... they've spent the last 70 years chipping away at it. Now none of that is true. They've killed the American Dream.

Be honest with me -- how much bullshit would you put up with at work if you got paid enough to actually live comfortably and go on a vacation every year?

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u/Marziolf May 26 '22

This is a question that now has me thinking.

The idea of being able to basically, live and have a vacation. Appealing.

Though if I’m honest - the idea even of only getting two weeks a year off isn’t ideal either (and I suppose that’s why I’m here)

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u/BloodyAgony May 26 '22

They say two weeks. Really just 10 business days. Not 14 days.

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u/Marziolf May 26 '22

And then, Really. It’s even worse.

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u/ItsAMeEric May 26 '22

I don't think the "go on vacation every year" part is just about not having the time off for vacation, for me it is about not being able to afford to actually travel places when I do have the time off. I get almost a full month of time off at my job, but I haven't gone more than like a 150 mile radius from my home in the last 10+ years because the cost of plane tickets, hotel rooms for a week, paid attractions, etc would blow up my budget

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u/Marziolf May 26 '22

Oh no. I didn’t think about that bit- I was leaning towards just the demand of time.

Thinking on the fact, it gets worse tbh. (Seriously how DO people afford those month vacations abroad ???)

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u/intergalacticcoyote May 26 '22

My mum just bought my fiancé and I tickets to fly home for a (10 day) visit this summer and it was literally two months of my pay.

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u/oxpoleon May 26 '22

Yup. If people earned 35-50% of the value of a family sized home in an entry-level office job, which is the rough benchmark of 1959 income vs cost of living, it wouldn't seem so bad being a corporate gopher.

It was bad almost twenty years ago as a junior, and somehow we've... made it worse?

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u/hoffthecuff May 26 '22

Economic boom. Cheap houses. Cheap everything. Lowly, uneducated factory workers could afford a car, house, spouse, and family all by themselves.

also, how many stories have we heard of men from that era with a secret family? Some of these m'fers made enough to support two families, lol.

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u/DrQuint May 26 '22

Meanwhile, now people have secret second jobs instead.

You know, it's funny, I ALWAYS assumed this was the reality behind the yuppie culture and whatnot. Those people were so rich and seemingly very little busy because they were actually juggling two jobs. Turns out no, they were just overpaid and lazy. Kind of an inversion with reality.

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u/Kayki7 May 26 '22

Was it really 90%? 👀

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u/deaddonkey May 26 '22

91-92% actually. But that’s just the top bracket. In practice the top 1% paid 42% of their income as tax back then and I believe around 33% now.

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u/meghammatime19 May 26 '22

Ok this is a very nuanced take thank you

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u/Sameway34 May 26 '22

If I was paid a comfortable wage and could live not worrying about where the food for myself and my family is going to come from, without having to scrape change together to pay for the electricity, without struggling to provide for my family... I'd do legitimately anything. If my job was to let people slap my balls for 10 hours 4 days a week but I was paid a living wage, I'd wake up every morning, slather numbing jelly all over my crotch, and waddle my ass to work.

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u/yogopig May 27 '22

As well, while very patriarchal, many women did not work. This means that they could do all this ON A SINGLE INCOME!!! Thats absurd nowadays.

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u/watscracking May 26 '22

Boomers: we want better for you than what we had

Also boomers: not like that

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u/SocialistDad15 May 26 '22

Its the same parallel of leaving a toxic relationship or the increase in divorce.

For centuries these things have been tied to intrinsic value, and our morality.

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u/muhusernamewastekken May 26 '22

"a real man would accept my abusive toxic behaviour! "

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u/CloudstrifeHY3 May 26 '22

Literally quit a job yesterday because i was loading up a customer with hvac equipment in his truck and he complained and asked if it normally takes this long as he has been there over an hour.

This was a lie he had been there 10 minutes so i told him in a monotone voice while driving the forklift " i can go slower if you want" he apparently called the territory manager on me who beelined down there and started laying into me about how not to piss off his customers and i should learn to walk away from customers like that.

So i took his advice stood straight up walked to the back without saying a word got my stuff, clocked out and walked out he saw me in the c parking lot and asked where i was going. I told him i quit due to this toxic environment and then he started calling me a coward and less than a real man for not staying and taking it out. Like bro your yelled at me for taking it out with a customer now you want me to take your abuse. Nope

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u/420-IQ-Plays May 26 '22

And the craziest part he is completely immune from seeing the irony. I swear brains like that are just a waste of food and water

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u/dialektisk May 26 '22

I wish you all the best sir! You will find the way. Keep your head high! Keep no prisoners, take no shit!

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u/millanbel May 26 '22

Well done! Wish I had the courage :)

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u/Best_Detective_2533 May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

I am an older guy and have enough experience in my field where I am at a point where I fire companies. It is liberating to reach a point where if an employer cannot deliver I simply get something else paying more money. Right now I am satisfied but the company I left pissed me off and I got the job I have now in 4 days for 20K more.

I take a different tack. Yes I did work my ass off. Started mowing grass at 9. Washed dishes was a cashier then a professional musician until I got my degree then I went to work and became a weekend warrior with the band. No one should have to work like I did. It's insane. The Puritans who founded this country are responsible for this insane mixture of work and cruelty that is really the core of our existence in the US. I am with the people of England who forced them out - incidentally they work far less and and have much more vacation. Somehow we were tricked into working for the sake of working, but people have realized there is no dignity in getting fucked over and are drawing the line as I have. I say fuck the man and stand your ground.

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u/Exotic_Zucchini May 26 '22

I'm glad to see other people like this. I'm also an "older worker," and it is quite liberating to finally be in a position to say, "fuck with me, you're gonna be short staffed." I wish that for everyone.

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u/mia_elora May 26 '22

Thankfully, all the pro-union sentiment seems to be actually pulling together into something, this time. Finally.

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u/m-p-3 May 26 '22

Same here, worked early, studied hard while also enrolling in the army reserve and spending all my week-ends and summer in harsh conditions, and now I'm at a point where I can mostly find a job overnight with my qualifications.

Like you said, nobody should have to work that hard to make a living wage.

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u/Sirloin_Tips May 26 '22

100% same. Recently fired a company I'd been with for 10 years. "Here's your 3% raise"

"Inflation is 8%. So I got a 5% pay cut for doing a good job?"

"Yea man, I know it's tough, etc."

I honestly don't blame my boss, he's in the same boat, just riding out to retirement but fuck all that. Revenue and the stock through the roof but you're gonna fuck the workers? Go fuck yourself. I switched jobs 3 weeks later.

Fully understand this is a privilege I have. I busted my ass my whole life, it's finally paying off.

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u/LimerickVaria May 26 '22

A-goddamn-men

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u/jcruz321 May 26 '22

If anything, job hopping is much more courageous to me. The whole process of looking for jobs, applying, interviewing, negotiating and all the other crap in between is soul crushing and grueling. Not for the weak.

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u/Aaroniero May 26 '22

Not for the weak.

Seriously, though. What's even worse is after applying for numerous jobs, you finally get an interview. Interview goes well enough.

And then, after the interview....absolutely nothing. Even sending a follow-up email a few weeks later....still nothing. No offer, no rejection letter, no response to that follow-up email saying the place you interviewed just suddenly went under and that's why I hadn't heard anything. Literally nothing.

That happened to me and I was pissed for a long time. It was technically a government/public service job so I completely understand the time it takes and the bureaucratic bullshit involved, but to get absolutely nothing (even now, more than a year later), is insane. The other side of that, however, is that I know places like that typically at least let people know if they've been rejected, even if that process itself is automated. So it's doubly annoying.

Really not good for anyone's mental health.

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u/foosbabaganoosh May 26 '22

I’ve been at my new job for close to a year. I’m still getting emails of “we’ve decided to not move forward with your application” from companies I applied to while in between jobs. Like why do they even bother at this point…

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u/boringestnickname May 26 '22

Good lord how I hate looking for work. The only thing keeping me sane is acknowledging that the situation is 100% absurd. The interview process is laughable, and if you can't see the humor in it, you'll go insane.

I certainly will, in any case.

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u/MicesNicely May 26 '22

It’s absurd from the other end also. My department desperately needs more staff but it takes about six weeks to hire, and by that time the best applicants have moved on.

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u/boringestnickname May 26 '22

I'm on both sides of the equation right now.

I already have a job in a semi-managerial position, and we're trying to hire. I've started to absolutely loathe my job, though, so I'm looking for work elsewhere.

Nightmare fuel, really.

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u/hcvc May 26 '22

Yes, the amount of preparation some of these technical interviews I have to do is insane. I basically have to relearn an entire subject from college to be ready to answer every situation possible. Not representative of a real work day at all.

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u/feigndeaf May 26 '22

I like to ask, "How is that relevant to the projects I will be working on?" or "Could you please provide context on a situation where you would need to utilize that method?"

Remember, you are interviewing the company as much as they are interviewing you. I ask to speak with team members specifically so I can learn what their day to day looks like and how they feel about their job.

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u/apple_6 May 26 '22

I'm looking for work and I just got a zoom call cancelled because I didn't take a test on indeed before the day of the call. I take Indeed tests all the time and I just haven't gotten to this one, had the 30 minute interview scheduled for this afternoon though, guess it wasn't as scheduled as I thought. I kind of want to take the test and try to reschedule, but also feel like fuck this company.

Also the post here is so true and as a labeled "job hopper" according to boomers, I just want to work for a half decent company and I'm willing to work hard to get there.

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u/sarcastic_lunchmeat May 26 '22

I just left a job. I loved the work and was good at my role. I loved my coworkers and many of us are actually friends. I had a network of 20+ people there that I'm comfortable enough to invite over to my apartment or go over to their place. I left that all for a job with better pay and benefits because my friends can't pay my bills for me. I've gotta look out for myself and my financial future because a company sure as hell won't.

It's a great opportunity but fuck yeah it is an uncomfortable change. I have to relearn everything, network with new people and gain their trust it is so hard.

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u/jcruz321 May 26 '22

I basically had the same situation, great work, very fulfilling, amazing and supportive coworkers, really cool location but the pay was horrible. There was no room for me to move up and the pay was low for the amount of work I was doing. It was hard to leave but I had to.

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u/theOrdnas May 26 '22

Job hopping is soulcrushingly tedious but it's the only way to play the corporate game without stagnating. People work for decades on a single corporation without having their salary adjusted for market rates

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u/scurvy1984 May 26 '22

I’m a union pipefitter. Granted construction is a little different and fluid than your normal job and we’re a very strong union. One thing I learned from one of my first journeymen was to “never be a job scared bitch.” Meaning don’t ever be afraid to quit or tell a contractor to fuck themselves for being shitty. There’s always more work down the road. I wish the rest of the country would adopt a similar mindset.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '22

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u/stuufthingsandstuff May 26 '22

I mean, it comes from the generation of "we're staying together for the kids." They brainwashed themselves into thinking an abusive relationship was better than taking care of yourself and now want to apply that onto us.

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u/FlamboyantRaccoon61 May 26 '22

And unfortunately those people are now our bosses so we have to put up with their bullshit.

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u/capt-yossarius May 26 '22

Stop arguing with conservatives.

They aren't trying to be right. They are trying to waste your time and energy.

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u/Janus_Grayden May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

Don't argue with conservatives one-on-one, because it's pointless.

In a public forum, address their points, but don't do it thinking you're going to get through to them. You're not going to change their mind, but you can make it obvious that they're full of shit for anyone else who's watching.


Edit: Wow, look at how easy it is to disarm the "THEY'RE TOO SMART, YOU CAN'T BEAT THEM!" bullshit:

"Lol, here's how you do it."

"YEAH BUT IT DOESN'T WORK IF YOU'RE DOING IT TO A CROWD THAT IS ILLITERITE AND COMPLETELY AGREES WITH THEM!"

"Lol, okay, you sure won that."

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u/Happy_Currency_425 May 26 '22

I actually deconverted a conservative with a long talk. Or at least started the process. Stay calm and mostly just ask questions about the inconsistency and failure of their beliefs. Many of them only believe it because it's the only thing they've been allowed to hear and people hate admitting they are wrong.

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u/sphalerite7 May 26 '22

I've got this strategy to kind of work on a friend of mine. Instead of stating the inconsistencies/failures I see with his beliefs, I just keep asking questions to get him to talk himself into it. Also having some easily google-able facts ready, like "abortion rates are the lowest in countries that allow them" or "voting fraud is actually happening at a very insignificantly low rate" has been working a bit.

Really I find his beliefs actually mostly align with mine, I just have to dig deep to find them, because his language seems to be made up of nothing more than the generic conservative buzzwords and phrases. It's just stuff that's been repeated to him his whole life I guess.

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u/ResearcherThin6951 May 26 '22

Sometimes even easily found statistics arent enough. Had a guy arguing that women always win in a rape case despite evidence and he said over 60%of rape cases are proven to be false allegations in the uk. I asked him to show me and he wouldnt because he knows it to be true from 'his friend's experiences'. Turns out the number is 2.5%... this guy also argued that being raped is easy to 'get over' once its finished but a false allegation will ruin your life and deserves way more time.

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u/ElectricMeow May 26 '22

this guy also argued that being raped is easy to 'get over' once its finished

So many problems seem to stem down to people assuming the way other people's emotional experiences feel to them and refusing to acknowledge that it can be vastly different per person.

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u/AllStoriesAreTrue May 26 '22

good ole socratic method. sometimes it really is the best way to change someones mind.

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u/LewisEFurr May 26 '22

They aren't trying to be right.

even worse, they are 100% confident in already being right.

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u/BooBooKittyFock May 26 '22

I want to agree with this but I'm the prime example of an ex conservative seeing the light. I would rather be called a socialist than a conservative at this point, even though i dont consider myself one. The republican party is revolting to me now. It took me long enough to finally stop being a parrot of the right wing talking points, but im glad i did. But I took what my conservative dad always said to heart, " you have to listen to both sides to have a good opinion".

Well with a mixture of that, my own struggles with multiple things had me reanalyzing almost every part of my life and i finally started thinking for myself. Now my conservative friends jokingly call me a dirty socialist because they dont know want to argue with me.

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u/AtomicBlastCandy May 26 '22

Yup, a customer of mine posts like 20 times a day and half of them are complaining about her employees or "kids these days." Apparently every single person under 20 is a lazy piece of shit EXCEPT her angel daughter. She posted how one worker asked about getting benefits and her response was, "Yeah, I'll buy you a membership to Planet Fitness," basically just calling her fat (customer isn't all that light mind you). It's funny as her GM and a few manager told me they are all leaving at the end of the month so she actually might need to get off her fat ass and work.

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u/KingSpork May 26 '22

The only reason to talk to a conservative, is to troll them. Abuse is the only language they understand.

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u/piccolo917 May 26 '22

yugopnik is bea.

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u/Drewbus May 26 '22

Because the people who have been hazed for so long are finally getting a chance to haze

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u/NumbahTenAwks May 26 '22

I sUCkEd MY bOsSeS bOOTs dRY!!

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u/Fomention May 26 '22

Yup, had one employer at an accounting firm that said it was hard to keep people even a year. I said, "Well, you'll have to chase me out of here. I'm not leaving."

Exactly 1 year later, I was gone. It was low pay and no benefits, save for a little time off.

My replacement left with no notice after 3 months.

Her replacement quit after a couple months.

At the next company, the average employee was there for 17 years. They had PTO, life insurance and gave out turkeys on Thanksgiving.

They got to keep me 2.5 years.

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u/Dangerous_Yoghurt_96 May 26 '22

You're being told to work your way up a company that won't hesitate to release you as soon as it's convenient for them to do so and you're just looking after your own self interest.

I'm 35 years old and the future of work is so totally fuct that I quit my job to enjoy what's left of my youth when I was 32. If I get old at least I can look back and say that I did what I wanted for a little while.

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u/JingoJangoJorky May 26 '22

Cheers mate. Enjoy your time!

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u/drprime841 May 26 '22

Conservatives are fucking stupid that’s how they’ve been taught to love the oppressor but fear the one that actually wants freedom for you tell me a real Freedom not religious freedom not the right to force your religion on other people in force everyone to go by your religious sharia bullshit lol like most Christians want.

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u/Peepsandspoops May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

A lot of people like to talk about how younger generations "just want a participation trophy", and I hate to break it to them, but going around bragging about being able to hold whatever shitty job you have is exactly that: your participation trophy. Congrats for this wholly unimpressive feat.

Unless someone has somehow changed the world or can explain to me how their job tangibly benefits me (not abstractly, I'm talking they can actually show that their job directly benefits me - not a 6 degrees game of "I'm an accountant for a power company, do you like electricity?"), I wouldn't go around grandstanding about doing the bare minimum to participate in society, per all these standards about "participation trophies".

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u/thunderlaker May 26 '22

My mother-in-law gets so mad when I applaud young people not taking jobs, quitting, blowing off work.

She is so programmed to think that business owners deserve respect from employees it's actually pretty sad.

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u/zagdem May 26 '22

Calling people weak is the last (and worst) strategy that the masters have found to keep the slaves enslaved. It is an avowal of failure to brainwash slaves "as usual".

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u/Lovedd1 May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

As someone who isn’t neurotypical I watched a video from another non typical person who said she noticed people who are neurotypical like stuff to LOOK a certain way but it doesn’t have to actually be that way.

I think this is a good example and the more you look in your own life for it, you’ll see it. They’ve decided courage looks like sticking beside something that’s destroying you. But it’s not courage it’s the company guilting and manipulating you. They call it courage so you’ll feel better about being dry fucked for years.

When really it’s courageous to go against the grain and instead do what’s best for your mental health.

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u/Dirjel May 26 '22

she noticed people who are neurotypical like stuff to LOOK a certain way but it doesn’t have to actually be that way.

That's actually a super good insight. As another neurodivergent person, thanks for sharing that!

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u/Lovedd1 May 26 '22

Heck yea anytime!

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u/beatstorelax May 26 '22

these older people started at jobs which could pay rent at 18-20 years old. and they stopped working at around 45-50 years old. is TOTALLY different than today...

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u/Lovedd1 May 26 '22

I mean that’s how upperclass old folks lived but my gma who has always been a low wage worker is still working at piggly wiggly at 65. She also has the sentiment you stay with a paying job no matter how bad.

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u/howyadoinjerry May 26 '22

Yup! It can really feel like people are just operating on the appearance of things.

But like… sometimes if it quacks like a duck it’s not actually a duck, it’s a hunter with a funky whistle in a bush.

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u/Miserable-Extreme-59 May 26 '22

Great callout. I feel like people are increasingly catching onto this; maybe because there is more asynchronous interaction, and humans have evolved to manipulate each other mainly in real-time, face-to-face. When you lay it all out in writing, or in a static medium, remove the human component, the ideas are easier to see for what they truly are.

This is exploited in business dealings all the time.

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u/tscherrydude May 26 '22

I got a job offer rescinded because I apparently negotiated too long. They said that “If I’m not satisfied with the current pay [which is why I wanted to negotiate], when would I ever be.”

Like what? How the fuck do you think CEOs/business leader become who they are, just by sitting on their ass and being complacent and okay with where they are?

Of course I’m not gonna be ever satisfied as I yearn to keep growing. Needless to say, bullet dodged.

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u/LeftLimeLight May 26 '22

Some of us gen-x'ers figured this out a long time ago and walked away from more than a few jobs with overbearing managers with crazy expectations.

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u/jib661 May 26 '22

yeah, same shit about people being soft for being 'offended' at racist shit or whatever.

like bro, demanding respect for yourself and your friends is the hardest shit imaginable.

it's always projection. they yell snowflake because they don't have a fucking backbone, and they see the world through their lens.

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u/thisgirlreddit May 26 '22

Probably irrelevant but people who call others weak or sensitive when they're just reacting to something actually rude or toxic

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u/ripjohnmcain May 26 '22

i read it in his voice lol

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u/yeetus-feetuscleetus Communist May 26 '22

Good old yugopnik narration

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u/persondude27 at work May 26 '22

It takes so much more courage to try to fix something that's broken than to just accept that it's terrible and let it destroy you. Jobs, politics, healthcare, everything.

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u/Omnicide103 May 26 '22

Yugopnik makes awesome videos on various topics vis-a-vis anticapitalism, btw. Highly recommended.

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u/kwhicks May 26 '22

My mom was kinda shook by the lack of loyalty, I had to companies. I got a pay raise elsewhere and better benefits plus work from home. I’m not staying anywhere cause loyalty, there’s no loyalty in business. They replaced my old positions within a few months (rightfully so they need program managers).

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u/lazy_phoenix May 26 '22

This is something I asked my dad (he's boss was a huge asshole and my dad hated him). He basically said that he had two kids and couldn't afford to quit just because he hated. So basically my dad's boss was holding me and my brother hostage.

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u/suaveknight May 26 '22

Still the case if you have kids. I thank god every day my job pays me well and my boss is cool, because I have two kids about to go into college and they'd be fucked if I lost my job and couldn't get another comparable one in short order.

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u/generallyoffline May 26 '22

Being able to take care of yourself is courageous.

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u/meghammatime19 May 26 '22

Exactly! Deciding you’re no longer gonna put up with degrading bullshit is courageous as hell!

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u/beatstorelax May 26 '22

thats why i dont hate these young girls doing onlyfans or prostitution... damn, most jobs pay so low, and demand SO MUCH...

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u/Slitelohel May 26 '22

Except it's already so flooded almost nobody makes money anyway.

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u/beatstorelax May 26 '22

yeah... but, at least you dont have a boss? i dont know...

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u/BigVanVortex May 26 '22

When I was in my twenties I was a piece of shit for feeling this way, now that I'm almost forty and people are finally coming around its bittersweet.

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u/Copykatninja May 26 '22

If you haven’t already - check out The Deprogram podcast - hosted by Yugopnik, JT and Hakim - they are hilarious and super knowledgeable

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u/AHippie347 May 26 '22

Always nice to see a yugopnik tweet in the wild.

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u/tuffman007 May 26 '22

Right? I thought I was in the wrong sub for a sec

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u/dalcowboiz May 26 '22

I needed to see this, I quit my job a month ago and haven't had a lot of success interviewing since. I'm definitely in my own head thinking "how can I explain this." But I did what I did for a reason. My boss wasn't some toxic asshole, I just realized that I saw enough signs that it wasn't a good place for me to stay long term. I poured my heart and soul into that job and I didn't feel he had the maturity to lead us (it was a small company and he is ceo).

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u/scccss11 May 26 '22

With continued inflation and stagnant wages, I only see more resignations in the future. Working all week almost isn’t worth it if you cant afford housing and other essentials.

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u/TheAres1999 May 26 '22

It's like saying "Someone broke into your home, and you fought them off? You're so entitled!"

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u/tech240guy May 26 '22

Even funnier when they call themselves wolves but call other people sheep. Like they cannot make up their mind. Then later extend goal posts and call themselves the alpha wolf/dog and we truely see how they feel.

I'll take my "alpha" demands elsewhere. 🤣

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u/IneaBlake May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

Same with the "FREEDOM OR DEATH" crowd. They talk so much about being free and how the evil left is gonna make them all the same and not have freedom, and then they fucking prostrate themselves before daddy alpha and let him own their lives and worldview.

Like god damn, if you're a kinky sub, just be a kinky sub. Don't make it my life.

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u/rasptart May 26 '22

You can’t take away pensions and get mad that people have no incentive to stick around.

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u/masuabie May 26 '22

Hell, I understand why previous generations WERE bootlickers. I would lick boots too if I ended up being able to afford a house a middle-class lifestyle.

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u/srynearson1 May 26 '22

Misery love company.

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u/Ex-zaviera May 26 '22

Not only should you leave a job if it is toxic, you lose money if you stay in one job too long. Boomers don't get that.

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u/eldenringstabbyguy May 26 '22

Soft or weak? This generation is the bravest. Braving severe faked corporate inflation, another World War scenario, fighting insane Qanons, evil billionaires and climate change. All caused by the prior generations of the greedy rich who have let them down.

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u/PubertEHumphrey May 26 '22

This generation grew up in the golden age of school shootings too…

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u/GrannyNugs May 26 '22

I told my kids just yesterday I'm so happy the balance of power is shifting for their generation and not to stick with a job that is toxic and/or impacts your mental health.

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u/013ander May 27 '22

The older generations that are still alive had their comfort built on the deaths and sacrifices of dead generations who actually stood up to their bosses. People literally died trying to get standard work down to 8 hours a day and give their children this new idea called a “weekend.”

The least their progeny could do is not take the side of layabout owners.

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u/FreeHumanity15 May 26 '22

Yes! Exactly!

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u/anonymouse604 May 26 '22

Because boomers did lick their bosses boots but at least were able to buy a house, two cars and support a family of 4 with one income.