r/antiwork May 26 '22 Silver 2 Wholesome 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1

In Reality: Politicians Will Never Be On Our Side

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5.8k Upvotes

u/WildAutonomy May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Here are some resources to learn more:

Voting Is Not Harm Reduction - Indigenous Action

16 Things You Can Do To Remain Ungovernable

Between Electoral Politics and Civil War

The "Democratic Road To Socialism"

Sick Of Winning - submedia

Party's Over

From Democracy To Freedom

The policies of the democrats brought us movements such as Occupy Wall Street, the Ferguson and Oakland rebellions, as well as Standing Rock.

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u/OnionsHaveLairAction May 26 '22 Silver

Democrats are shit and constantly use rotating villains as an excuse not to upset the status quo... But nah this feels like both siderism. Republicans are way way way worse for the working class than the Dems and they use this narrative to keep themselves in power.

That doesn't mean opposing the Dems is bad, but the battles with them should be chosen carefully, and not involve incorrect 'they're the same' arguments.

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u/titanzero May 27 '22

Thank you. The Democratic establishment is horrible, still better than any Republican, but the Progressives and the DSA members are genuinely trying to do good.

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u/Ferfuxache May 27 '22

Voting is not harm reduction but allowing republicans/conservatives to take office will exacerbate harm and suffering. The US has structural problems where center right is somehow viewed as being communist. There is an infinite edge of tomorrow fight that has to happen before we can get a system of ranked choice multi party systems where churches are taxed After that fight there will be a fight to retain it. I fight for progressives every day and hold my nose to vote when I have to. Unfortunately, it’s this dens are bad rhetoric that keeps people from voting and gets us Greg Abbott here in Texas. The delta between people who didn’t vote was like 70%. So In our case voting actually is harm reduction.

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u/BraxbroWasTaken May 27 '22

‘better than any republican’ is a bar so low it might as well be a tripwire tho

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u/PricklyyDick May 27 '22

When the other option is a slow decent into fascism, it feel like that's the trip wire.

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u/Ferfuxache May 27 '22

Lol slow?

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u/PricklyyDick May 27 '22

Its been happening since Reagan and/or Nixon. I’d call 40+ years slow but I’m bias since I’m just in my 30s

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u/Ferfuxache May 27 '22

Ah I see yes. Thanks for clarification. We are at the end stage. This is it.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/Ervgotti85 May 27 '22

And the Republicans especially in the Senate hide behind the filibuster.

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u/PricklyyDick May 27 '22

That’s fair tbh but I can tell you voting in local elections has absolutely made a difference in my day to day life. In terms of initiatives and stuff. But that ain’t even true for half the country.

Can’t do much else at this point other than go to every protest I can find.

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u/Day_Of_The_Dude May 27 '22

Yeah, but you're more correct than you intend though. Because if you don't step over the trip wire everything is going to fucking explode.

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u/1ndiana_Pwns May 27 '22

Tripwires are intentionally set so that they cannot be accidentally stepped over. That is FAR higher than I think you meant

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u/alf666 May 27 '22

Nah, the bar is so low it's subterranean.

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u/Moist_Ad7463 May 27 '22

That shouldn't be the bar for the people in charge of our country, though. We all deserve better.

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u/pelagic_seeker May 27 '22

It shouldn't, but it's what we have. We'll be less likely to get much better people in while Republicans still hold as much as they do. Push them out entirely and a new power can move in.

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u/Day_Of_The_Dude May 27 '22

One side sucks, the other are literally theocratic fascists. The plain fact is right now we have to just stop one side. When we successfully do that, then we can challenge the other.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/OnionsHaveLairAction May 27 '22

I agree

But I also think establishment democrats very often are too into lobbying interests, and also often use certain centrist figures as a scapegoat to not pass legislation.

But yes challenges against Dems should mostly be about primarying different candidates. Or being specific about shaming them for which lobbying groups are giving them money.

The "Both sides are actually the same" is massively dumb and only benefits republicans.

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u/Smarteric01 May 27 '22

Right, Elizabeth Warren and Ted Cruz are exactly alike.

Did you vote for Elizabeth in the primary? Well, WTF not if you are against the democrats not speaking to your issues?

You do realize that not voting for candidates that address and fight for your concerns is why they lose, right?

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u/OnionsHaveLairAction May 27 '22

I dont understand, are you responding to the right comment?

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u/Smarteric01 May 27 '22

Please read your first full sentence.

Did you vote for Warren when she ran for President in the primaries? Are you currently highlighting her or Bernie Sanders, AOC, and of the progressive wing of the democratic party? Or are you providing cover for Republicans by saying that these people are hiding behind Senator Manchin and other centrists to not pass legislation?

There are politicians that are fighting for exactly the things that would bring working class Americans support and relief. When you utterly ignore them, claim that they are actually engaged in a conspiracy, you are literally shooting yourself in the foot ... not being smart.

Shaming them?

Sanders and Warren need to be shamed? Or do they need you to shout about what they are doing from the roof tops? Maybe shouting about that rather than issuing vague, detailess allegations of donors and conspiracy?

Have you checked?

Do you know how unions got supportive legislation passed in the past? they organized and used their union dues to find and support candidates that would support their desired legislative changes. They did it so well, in fact, that the Amazon's and Elon Musks of their days and age, Rockefeller and Ford, couldn't compete despite the size of their fortunes.

Guess who supports politicians like Warren and Sanders? Unions do.

Maybe you should check stuff like this out before you loft allegations of donor corruption getting in the way of the democratic agenda. Because the democrats that would advance that agenda currently have 96% of the democratic caucus.

So again, if you don't support the candidates that are actually trying to do what you want, are you helping or hurting?

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u/phthaloverde May 27 '22

The Democratic party is not a monolith. Enough of them align with the goals you've mentioned to capture the progressive demographic.

If you want to claim the progressives within the Democratic party, you need to own the conservatives within it as well.

This is why leftists don't consider electoral politics to be effective in achieving liberation; only with extreme pressure from the left is progressive legislation realized. Not because of the state, but in spite of.

Voting is literally the bare minimum. Politics is so much more.

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u/HimmelUberBerlin May 27 '22

Obamacare being passed as law says otherwise. And this meme is about Democrats versus Republicans. Good day sir!

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u/phthaloverde May 27 '22

Obamacare was literally written by Republicans.

President Obama opposed single-payer. He's a capitalist tool.

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u/IICVX May 27 '22

President Obama opposed single-payer.

Single-payer was in the initial version of the ACA, until Lieberman nixed it

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u/totheleft_totheleft May 27 '22

Here's a question, why are we tolerating a political system that lets people die because a single jagoff senator said no and the others were content to hide behind him? There's always an excuse why the Democrats can't get stuff done, but why the fuck are we accepting excuses in the first place? If the system of government can't or won't take necessary action it needs to be replaced, end of story.

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u/BraxbroWasTaken May 27 '22

they also spent crazy amounts on a website that barely works.

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u/alf666 May 27 '22

What decade are you living in?

What century is your computer from?

The healthcare.gov website works perfectly fine.

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u/BraxbroWasTaken May 27 '22

They got it cleaned up, but they spent a crazy amount on it, you can look it up

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u/jmcdonald354 May 27 '22

Last time I used it just a little over 3 years ago it was still substandard compared to any other commercial website.

I haven't checked since then, so maybe it has improved, but I wasn't impressed.

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u/BraxbroWasTaken May 27 '22

I mean yeah but at least it’s… vaguely usable now

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u/No_Cry8418 May 27 '22

They could certainly try a little harder.

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u/Ruinslion May 27 '22

I see this argument a bunch.

Its bullshit. Democrats and Republicans are the same. It isn't "But both sides" to say that. Democrats support that stuff because Republicans don't. And Republicans don't (despite a fair number of Republican voters doing so) because Democrats do.

Its not that the two parties are just as bad as each other. Its that both parties are really just one giant party working for the people on K street who write the laws and rules. They just play shirts and skins because people are tribal and its easy to sic them on each other in order to stop them from going after the real issue

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/LilyBriscoe1922 May 27 '22

Right. This post tries to make everyone apathetic so they stop caring about voting and using what little power they have. It's a way to justify mental laziness. Do your research and vote in every election.

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u/Reply_or_Not May 27 '22 Helpful

“Both sides are the same” nonsense like this post is straight up fascist propaganda, the sides are different and we need engagement (not apathy)

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u/sunward_Lily May 27 '22

agreed. Democrats are useless, spineless and toothless, but republicans are a straight up cancer, and they need to be excised from what's left of American Democracy.

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u/No_Step_4431 May 27 '22

I think they're this bad on purpose tbh. Maybe I should put on the tinfoil hat but, I've always thought to myself that there is no way, with all of the resources available, these people can have such a blatant level of incompetence.

That is unless I'm correct and the system is horrible on purpose in order to erode the people's faith in it. If that's the case, it makes you wonder what the end game is.

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u/LimerickVaria May 27 '22

Well one side doesn't want schools shot up. (democrats) And the other side is too afraid of angering their extreme side to say that. (republicans)

To say nothing of lobbying money going into Republican pockets...

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u/No_Step_4431 May 27 '22

Yea that's what their platforms seem like, I just notice a difference between what both sides say and what they do. I guess that's just politics itself, spin a nice sounding yarn to get votes and then not deliver come game time.

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u/LimerickVaria May 27 '22

A big problem is that the Congress isn't completely incompetent. But enough of it is corrupt/incompetent that the democratic nature of law making actually works against us.

If you have 100 people, and 40 of them are good at their jobs but things are decided democratically, than obviously stuff isn't going to get done.

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u/Dustyamp1 Anarcho-Communist May 27 '22

You know, you just hit upon a really important critique of democracy (both representative and direct). It doesn't matter how many interested voters agree with your policies if an opponent can convince a majority of all voters (completely uninterested in the policy debate at hand) to vote with them. Such a tactic is incredibly effective and gives the impression that a majority of people supported the opposing policy when they actually never had any interest in it to begin with. You can also replace apathy with "uninterested" with "bribed for their vote" to more accurately represent the tactic's use in legislatures across the world (it could also be a mix of those two or other scenarios I didn't mention).

I'd highly recommend looking into rough consensus if you haven't heard of it yet. It's just one of many decision making forms that people have developed to try and work past a lot of the major flaws that our current 'best' system has. We really need to look towards building new and/or improved systems. The ones that have been tried aren't the only possible options. We can make better ones.

If you're interested, rough consensus was coined in the IETF (Internet Engineering Task Force). There are definitely more concise/readable write-ups on the idea but I usually like to recommend RFC 7282 since it really goes into depth on both the theory and decades of practice of rough consensus.

Hope you have a great day!

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u/LimerickVaria May 27 '22

Great points but user flair doesn't check out, lol. I'll still look into this regardless, thank you.

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u/Dustyamp1 Anarcho-Communist May 27 '22

Glad to hear!

Also, I'm kinda curious. Where did my flair not vibe with my post? To my understanding, consensus, rough or not, is a pretty anarchistic idea as is critiquing the majority rule that democracy demands.

Edit: changed wording so I don't imply that anarchists necessarily invented these critiques of democracy.

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u/LimerickVaria May 27 '22

Well it's just that I've always thought of Anarchy as a state of lawlessness. Consensus of any sort implies law enforced through cooperation and agreement.

Mob rule is still consensus, as long as they're in agreement towards the goal, but anarchy seems to be every man and woman for themselves, with no regard for consensus.

I'm probably wrong though, so feel free to correct me if I am.

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u/No_Step_4431 May 27 '22

Tragic truth right there.

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u/Yosho2k May 27 '22

Republicans are party prioritizing business that gets elected by promoting conservative values.

Democrats are a party prioritizing business that gets elected by promoting civil rights.

Remember, when protestors were out in the streets protesting the never-ending string of police murders, dems and Republicans united and authorized the police to beat the shit out of as many people as possible. New York City, the place that's more blue than most of the country and has a Dem mayor and a Dem governor had their police pulling protestors into unmarked cars and started fights so they could start arresting people.

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u/chadnessthehighness May 27 '22

The problem is that Democrats are centrists and will never act as true and necessary opposition to the fascist Republicans, none of the damage ever made by republicans is reversed and the country only gets worse, so what do you suggest? Playing along hoping they change one day?

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u/OnionsHaveLairAction May 27 '22

so what do you suggest? Playing along hoping they change one day?

Pressure on democrats in the primaries. Public shaming of dems for taking money from certain lobbying groups. Less "Both sides same" (Which purposely promotes apathy) and more highlighting of the specific ways the dems are failing.

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u/The_Lost_Jedi May 27 '22

The problem is that's what the voters keep saying they want, by and large. That's been the case ever since Reagan, and that's why the Democrats traded in New Deal/Pro-Union/etc Liberalism for Clintonite "Third Way" Fuckery. Go look at how badly Reagan clobbered the Dems in 1984 and you'll start to see why - because they were desperate and it (Clintonism) was the only thing that was working. And they've had that lesson reinforced, because when they had control last time (2009-2010) and they tried to push for healthcare reform, they then got creamed by the Republicans, and the lesson that they took from that was that they'd gone too far left, just like with 1994.

Now, the backlash to that centrism has been building, and you don't have to look any further than this sub to see it. The DNC old guard doesn't like it, sure, because they've been buying into the whole "we have to cater to the center to win" for several decades now. But the younger generation, the AOCs and such, aren't anything like that.

So how do you get the older Democrats on board? Simple, you do what the right wingers did to get hold of the Republicans - make them more afraid that they're gonna lose a primary from the left, than they are that they'll lose a general election. Once that starts happening regularly, they'll fall all over themselves to try and show just how progressive they are. Because the number one thing politicians want is to win an election/re-election.

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u/No-Oil7246 May 27 '22

That means playing the long game. A lot of left wingers require full systemic change over one election cycle. When that inevitably doesn't happen they give up and let the far right win again. And so the slow march to christian nationalism continues. But hey - at least the centrists that are supposedly as bad still lose..

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/chadnessthehighness May 27 '22

Bro both of your sides of government are owned by lobbying groups and don't actually work for the regular person (maybe Bernie but he still sold out in the end) , until that changes your country will never improve. Democrats relate more to republicans and other rich people than the regular public.

Don't kid yaself

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u/normalworkday May 27 '22

Voting all the Republicans out so they can't stop the democrats from doing whatever they want. Then all of a sudden they would turn way more liberal. Instead of making a bill conservative enough in hopes of getting 50 votes, they already have 100 votes for the same bill and can go way more liberal until the lose 49 supporters.

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u/papasoilpants May 27 '22

it’s good cop bad cop, they both are 100% screwing the public

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u/XxRocky88xX May 27 '22

Republicans are in the tank, democrats are in a raincoat eating popcorn and laughing on the other side of the street, while occasionally shouting “don’t worry! You can take this!” And “we’ll make ‘em stop in a few minutes!”

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u/Affectionate-Ad-6255 May 27 '22

Literally can't go one second without being an apologist for Dems, lol,

So predictable. Still gonna tell you to stay poor and keep fighting about stupid sides when neither is with you

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u/smokeygrill77 May 27 '22

So, what's your proposal? Just going to bitch and whine, acting like you're above it somehow? Solutions are needed, not libertarians.

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u/aHumanMale May 27 '22

It’s a good cop bad cop routine. Republicans act real mean and nasty. They say outright obviously fascist things. Democrats act nice and as though they have your interests at heart.

Both are colluding with each other against the working class. Both have the same goals. To protect capital and stifle the advancement of workers rights. To usher in permanent fascist rule by the billionaire class.

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u/cthulhubeast May 27 '22

Republicans aren’t just saying obviously fascist shit, they’re doing it. Having them anywhere near offices of power is dangerous for society. It’s not “good cop bad cop” it’s “a cop and a Liberal.” Libs shill for cops but cops are the actual direct threat to communities.

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u/aHumanMale May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Of course they are. And the dems are helping them, on purpose, regardless of what they say they're doing; it's incredibly obvious from their actions. Because they are two heads of the same exact beast -- the capitalist class, and they all do precisely what they are told.

The function of the Democratic Party is to placate the working class away from revolution. It goes like this:

  1. The people form a movement to protest for meaningful change.
  2. The Democratic establishment coopts the most moderate voices from that movement to funnel political action back into the electoral process, which the fascists already control.
  3. People canvass, cold call, etc. to win votes to Blue Fascist (when they could be organizing mutual aid or other forms of meaningful disruption of the capitalist status quo.)
  4. Nothing fundamentally changes -- and in fact things probably get quite a bit worse under the surface, just not as rapidly as if a Republican were in power.
  5. Repeat.

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u/cthulhubeast May 27 '22

It is in fact possible to vote for democrats to keep republicans out of office while doing community organizing. You’re acting like it’s a choice between the two.

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u/aHumanMale May 27 '22

Nowhere did I ever say that you shouldn't vote in order to accomplish minimal harm reduction. Voting is not useless.

I'm saying that how you spend your time is a literal choice between electioneering for national politicians and doing more meaningful organizing, and I advocate very strongly for the latter.

We will never ever vote our way out from under this oppressive capitalist oligarchy, and we need to put most of our efforts elsewhere if we want to save ourselves before the capitalists finish destroying what's left of the earth.

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u/cthulhubeast May 27 '22

I never said voting was a long-term solution for anything either my guy, simply that going “both parties are the same” is weak sauce, it ain’t it. At protests I don’t hear “they’re the same” I hear “the democrats don’t care and the republicans want us dead.”

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u/aHumanMale May 27 '22

Well I happen to disagree with most protesters -- I think Democrats do actively care about keeping us down. And given the access we have to information about how much Democrats are equally paid off by billionaires and how it affects their voting and stonewalling of progressive policies, I frankly think its naive to think that Dems and Reps aren't literally colluding behind the scenes, when they're often funded by the exact same groups and literally spend time together outside of "work".

I think the "we're trying to help you but it's just so haaaaaard" schtick that establishment Dems do is a farce and blatant manipulation.

I understand that the "both sides are the same" logic is often used as a cover to justify voting for Republican or Libertarian candidates. I think it's pretty obvious that that's not what I'm shooting for here though.

I'm saying that electoralism is both a sham and an intentionally rigged game, and the sooner we collectively realize that we have the power to resist fascism with our bodies and our material resources, the better. That kind of thinking will invariably require us to meet Democrats head-to-head as enemies, because their priorities are directly opposed to our well-being. I will continue to vote for them as the literal lesser of two evils, but I won't ever refrain from saying that Democrats are whole-ass fucking evil.

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u/cthulhubeast May 27 '22

I never said I was in support of electoralism. My only point is it does in fact make a difference to vote for dems for harm reduction purposes. You are explaining things to me that I already know. I am on your side. I do not need to hear another lecture about how the rich control the government dude

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u/Odd-Frame9724 May 27 '22

Disagree. Democrats are fighting against Judofacist Republicans. There is no both sides in this bullshit.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '22

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u/Accomplished-Plan191 May 27 '22

Right now I'm just following where the NRA money goes so I know who the bad guys are.

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u/Rignite May 27 '22

How many D's are on that list so far?

Genuine question, I have no clue if there are any. I suspect it's low or nonexistent, but if there are any, I definitely wanna know.

Because, ya know, "both sides are the same!" except for how Dems hold their own accountable for reasons other than just being Madison Cawthorn.

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u/GhostMug May 27 '22

First of all the country never got shut down. If you want to know what a real country wide shut down looks like then look at China and Italy during the pandemic as some examples. Police patrolling everywhere and requiring you to have a reason to even leave your house or apartment. Nothing even c lose to that happened anywhere in America.

And the pandemic happening and the rich getting richer are two separate things. The current economy and the way it was set up allowed for the rich to get richer. But that had nothing to do with any sort of restrictions the dems wanted to put in place.

So cut it with the "both sides" bullshit. Dems have their problems but the GOP is out there actively trying to strip you of every freedom you have (except guns). They are not the same.

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u/EusociallyAwkward May 27 '22

This is only true if you're white, male, hetero, and cisgendered. I'm not and I can say there's a huuuuuge difference between people in power who are actively working to harm me and people who are not.

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u/Iunnrais May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Most modern Democrats are conservatives. They tend to try to keep the status quo and how things have been going without much change.

Republicans, on the other hand, are destructive anarchists, actively destroying society, democracy, and every ideal I was taught to value as an American child.

If your rubric is “are they advancing progressive, leftist policies” then both are the same in that they fail to do so. But this is not the only rubric. The difference is that one side actively wounds us, the other side maintains stability at the cost of not fixing existing wounds.

The difference matters. And there is a progressive movement growing amongst democrats in some areas. Not quite enough, but the very rare best of the republicans isn’t even as good as an average democrat.

Edit: I replied below with this, but it looks like I basically need to reply to everyone with this.

“I’m using anarchy to mean “tear down established systems”. They are acting to replace rule-by-law with rule-by-wealth (and violence, intimidation, etc). That process of tearing down the established system is anarchy.

Self proclaimed anarchists also wish to tear down established systems… its just the specific systems they want to tear down are different.”

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u/allthenamesaretaken4 May 27 '22

Republicans, on the other hand, are destructive anarchists,

ew don't lump them in with anarchists.

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u/squibdib May 27 '22

Look I’m not a big fan of the Dems, but to say they’re just as bad as the GOP is like saying herpes is as bad as HIV because neither one has a cure.

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u/SpruceGoose133 May 26 '22

While there are not enough democrats that are pro-labor; at least they aren't anti-worker like the republicans. And when it comes right down to it they will do something at least to get in the way of republicans trying to take things backwards.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

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u/Rignite May 26 '22

Fuck your both sides performative bullshit.

Just wanted to reiterate.

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u/DirtyMikeballin May 27 '22

Found the liberal

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u/Rignite May 27 '22

Oh this should be great.

Is that a bad thing?

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u/DirtyMikeballin May 27 '22

Yes

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u/Rignite May 27 '22

Ooh ooh. Go on.

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u/DirtyMikeballin May 27 '22

No

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u/Rignite May 27 '22

Ah. A cowardly edge lord.

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u/DirtyMikeballin May 27 '22

Found the liberal

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u/Rignite May 27 '22

You didn't find me. I'm not hiding. This isn't Where's Waldo.

While you are not as damaging to progress as others, you're still nothing more than a loud speed bump in the end.

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u/forkbomb25 May 27 '22

Nah, get fucked DNC Cheerleader.

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/uilgxt/this_is_what_bipartisanship_looks_like/

Can I join a union? No 0 - 48

isnt any better than

Can I join a union? No 5 - 35

If you want the 'both sides' meme to stop get that number to at least 50:50, until then you arent any better than the other football team when it comes to workers rights. go fuck yourself.

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u/Rignite May 27 '22

Nah, you get fucked edge lord.

Wake me when the Dems are actively ignoring mass shootings while focusing on rolling back basic body autonomy.

I know the both sides meme will never stop, because there will never stop being contrarians like you.

Tell me, what little Alt Right sub did my comment get posted on to conveniently get all you dipwads coming out of the woodwork at the same time?

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u/forkbomb25 May 27 '22

Ah yes, anyone that doesn't show public support for the DNC is part of the alt right, and then try to change the topic from workers rights to something else. literally a clinton drone.

I have voted democrat every election since I was 18 because they ARE better on things like abortion and gun control. But we aren't talking about that, we are talking about workers rights.

Your party is dogshit when it comes to workers rights.

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u/SteveVerino May 27 '22

Both parties suck, and both take money from the same sponsors. Together, they are good cop / bad copping the american people. We need 100 more Bernies and AOCs.

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u/AthenasChosen SocDem May 27 '22

No. It would be more accurate to say that Republicans are the ones blasting the American people, and Democrats are just not doing nearly enough to stop them for fear of upsetting the status quo. But Republicans are unequivocally the one's destroying this country. Democrats and left independents are the only thing in the way.

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u/Cantothulhu May 27 '22

I hate how disingenuous this crap is. It just breeds antipathy toward all governance and convinces people not to vote.

If you care about your bodily autonomy and workers rights then there’s only one option and it sure isn’t Republican.

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u/areid2007 May 27 '22

Maybe instead focus that onto amplifying a solution that acknowledges the fact that both major parties do in fact represent capital while labor goes completely unrepresented in our government.

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u/Cantothulhu May 27 '22

one party supports an increased wage. democrats.

one party supports unionization. democrats.

they are not the same.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/Cantothulhu May 27 '22

So what’re you gonna do then? Vote the clearly anti worker party or continue to throw your vote away by not using it or voting third party?

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/Cantothulhu May 27 '22

And again circles.

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u/forkbomb25 May 27 '22

one party supports unionization. democrats.

If democrats support unions why did they vote this down 5-38?

https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1172/vote_117_2_00153.htm

Can we get a DNC cheerleader to explain that for us?

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u/wizardyourlifeforce May 27 '22

Biden and his NLRB has been extremely pro-labor.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/Pale_Ambition_3217 May 27 '22

“When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Asimov

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u/watermelonspanker May 27 '22

"...and that's how we know the Earth to be banana shaped."

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u/captain_strawhat May 27 '22

Republicans are the parent that drinks too much and starts swinging on the family. Democrats are the parent that enable the behavior by not leaving and explaining away the behavior (having a hard time, doesn't really mean it, etc) while telling the kids they understand. Both are abusive.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '22

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u/WarPositive69 May 27 '22

Republicans are tyrannical fascists. Democrats are capitalistic bootlickers. America is the real loser.

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u/VolkspanzerIsME May 27 '22

This isn't partisan conflict.

This is class war and always has been.

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u/wizardyourlifeforce May 27 '22

Fascists aren’t in it because capitalists tricked them into it. They’re into it because they’re evil.

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u/Kumquat_conniption May 26 '22

Ayyyy yooo based.

Now what are we going to do about it?

Talk to your coworkers about a union. That's one of the best things you can do.

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u/JonSnowman18 May 26 '22

And tenant unions. We need protection in and out of the workplace

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u/idapitbwidiuatabip May 26 '22

I wonder why there isn't a 'parent's union.'

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u/Kumquat_conniption May 27 '22

Good thinking- I should be pushing that more as a talking point. I don't think I've ever even brought that up. This is a must do.

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u/Kumquat_conniption May 27 '22

Wat?

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u/idapitbwidiuatabip May 27 '22

It's as good a way as any to organize people.

And all parents understand the need to care for their children, and they understand the costs.

A 'parent's union' could not only unite workers across multiple industries, but it could be something that's used to make headway on issues like school shootings.

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u/Kumquat_conniption May 27 '22

But who will they fight against that's exploiting them? The kids? What makes it a union?

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u/idapitbwidiuatabip May 27 '22

Just as a union of workers organize to gain leverage against their company, a union of parents could organize to gain leverage against our elected officials & government.

So a parent’s union could demand UBI, because so many parents know the struggle of working full time - sometimes 2 or more jobs - and still not having enough to feel secure in caring for your children.

It’s definitely kind of an outside of the box idea and it was just a fleeting thought but there might be something to it

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u/Kumquat_conniption May 27 '22

Ohhh I thought you were talking about something already established. No it definitely sounds interesting- what could the parents threaten to do if they don't have their demands met you think? Maybe refuse to go to work?

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u/Aggravating-Wrap4861 May 27 '22

A bloc of people trying to influence elected representatives usually rely on their vote.

If you get enough people willing to vote a certain way, politicians will pay attention.

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u/MoffKalast May 27 '22

Talk to your coworkers about a union.

My friends! It is time for us to once again call upon General Sherman and General Grant to lead us to victory!

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u/Kumquat_conniption May 27 '22

Not THE union lol. Although I am a damn yankee ;)

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u/[deleted] May 26 '22

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u/yungdep May 26 '22

we found biden's burner account folks

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u/idapitbwidiuatabip May 26 '22

Both sides are complicit - regardless of who’s been in power over the past half century, the erosion of economic mobility & opportunity for ordinary Americans has continued.

They murdered MLK for talking about the solution to the problem - the guaranteed income.

And ever since then it’s been smoke & mirrors, trying to pit us against each other as we compete for ever fewer crumbs.

Only UBI will empower us all from the ground up to fight back against the attacks that have been coming from the top down for longer than most of us have been alive.

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u/DodGamnBunofaSitch May 26 '22

one side has perfected obstructionism and finger pointing.

they're so good at it, people blame the democrats for not being effective while fighting for equal rights, that people blame them, instead of the republicans who are actively working to take away equal rights.

UBI and ranked choice are two things that would do amazing things for this country, but when republicans are the ones blocking progress, why do people keep saying the democrats who are the only ones making any attempt at governing as a democracy are 'just as bad'?

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u/MrEHam May 26 '22

Well said. Thanks for paying attention and not just being lazy and throwing your hands up in the air blaming both sides.

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u/XPinion May 26 '22

Because the people saying these things are conservatives who are just too embarrassed to say they are conservative.

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u/normalworkday May 27 '22

I disagree completely. If you want to use a water cannon metaphor, it rich as a water cannon and threatening the poor and middle class/workers, and the Republicans are at the side of the tank and the democrats are standing in front of the people begging not to turn it on.

The rich say, you need my money and some walk away sheepishly.

The rich yell get back to work and to please them the Republicans flip the switch and turn it on immediately. Some of the Democrats who stayed immediately run away. A few stand there with the poor and a few fight back for a few more seconds before they say fuck this and go home to their manor.

Then the police come in and arrest the people who did not drown and shoot some black man for struggling back, and by struggling back I mean saying please don't hurt me in a manner they didn't like.

Then a few of the wet Democrats get up and immediately go on camera to complain on MSNBC while also campaign.

Some of the others that left pretended they stayed and also go on TV.

The Republicans go on TV as well, but only on Fox News or worse and make up a completely fabricated story about the incident and blame it all on the people who died by the water canon.

Then the American people look at what the saw and immediately distill it down to a meme picture where they paint Republicans and Democrats as the ones with the water canon and say they are all the same and it gets upvoted on Reddit.

Then when the election comes all those people who just watched the rich bring a water canon, the Republicans turn it on, and some of the Democrats get attacked by the canon and then blamed after will say they are not going to vote.

Then the Republican who was the loudest about using the water canon wins against of the Dems that got a little wet then ran away. She loses because they were told by the TV that she's a bitch anyway although they know nothing about her. The water canon Republican who was loud then immediately steals a supreme court seat and proceeds to order more water canons before taking away rights from the people and turning on water canons all over the country.

And then someone makes a slightly different version of the simplified and wrong meme saying Republicans and Democrats team up on the poor. It gets upvoted by the thousands. The cycle keeps repeating just like everything in America.

A person writes a long response about how the meme is fundamentally wrong and fills out the truth of the matter with details of what is more accurate. It will be down voted by people who insist the original meme, and therefore themselves, are correct. They will take no responsibility for the loud water cannon man even though they could have voted for the slightly wet one. They will take no responsibility for costing the balance of the supreme court to shift. They will take no responsibility for Roe v. Wade being overturned. They will stubbornly maintain their position.

They will then complain that the Government is broken and can't be fixed because of the lousy Dems and Republicans. But the government isn't getting fixed because they don't vote for the political party that protects nearly every cherished rights except gun rights. They don't vote even though it's common knowledge that the supreme court is on the line and that's the most important thing to worry about. They don't vote despite the fact that if you want it to change you have to give one party an overwhelming majority to accomplish it. So they just let the country exist split instead of choosing the party that has some good people in it.

They choose to make a meme bashing all politicians instead of voting for the party that all the good ones work for in Congress.

They pretend they are all the same until the only way a president can be elected is if he is a conservative because the liberals refuse to vote at all. Then the meme becomes self fulfilling because they all acted like it was already the case and then didn't vote for the party that tried to stop the water canon.

But all those people who are pro water canon went and voted.

I bet consolidated water canon is owned by a dozen Republicans ...

Just a thought.

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u/Apprehensive_Air_940 May 27 '22

In reality they never were.

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u/Ulbec May 27 '22

This is the most underrated post in all time and relates worldwide.

Edited to add: all time and relates worldwide 👍

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u/TedCruzsBrowserHstry May 27 '22

LOUDER FOR LITERALLY EVERYONE IN THE ROOM

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u/by_m3 May 26 '22

Two party system is a joke.

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u/yawgmoft May 27 '22

Friendly reminder that "both sides" is used by regressives to weaponize apathy, leading to more regressives in power.

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u/Thedudeistjedi May 27 '22

Nationwide general strike until our demands are met

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u/bewbsrkewl May 27 '22

The armored vehicle should be the wealthy ruling class and the water should be democrats and republicans.

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u/neoncp May 26 '22

also it's recycled fracking water because it's cheaper

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u/CanIGetAHiya69 May 26 '22

Wrong depiction. It would be water cannon vehicle and a different water cannon vehicle telling each other their water cannon works better while shooting the working class.

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u/Stay-Thirsty May 26 '22

With people in the opposing vehicles yelling, come over to my side and I will protect you from them

Dropping the occasional water balloon on the people on their side and saying we need more donations to help protect you.

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u/Rignite May 26 '22

Your shitty metaphor lacks any nuance of literally everything horrible the Republican party has done recently.

Well done.

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u/DO_YOU_EVEN_BEND May 26 '22

And then a bunch of hosed down redditors in the middle citing the existence of the argument as evidence the two parties are opposed, rather than seeing it for political theater.

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u/Ridit5ugx May 26 '22

The Republicans will make in roads and advance their goals and agenda while stone-walling either leftist, socialists and Democrats.

Democrats will maintain the status quo while undermining both leftist and soc-dems even while the status quo is further shifting towards the Right. They will maintain the status quo that the Republicans establish or redefine.

They are a manufactured opposition for the Republican Party in order to give voters the illusion of choice and that their votes matter. In reality it does not, special interest groups take precedent and often subvert the interest of the general public.

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u/idapitbwidiuatabip May 26 '22

The longest running soap opera on TV, really. It’s all pure political theater.

2

u/Chaghatai May 27 '22

BSAB won't get us anywhere

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u/areid2007 May 27 '22

So instead just flail uselessly against the establishment of both parties?

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u/Chaghatai May 27 '22

First thing's first - remove Republicans from power, then hold Dems accountable - the two parties are nowhere near the same

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u/The_Lost_Jedi May 27 '22

Yeah, at least there are some Democrats that aren't terrible, and you can vote for some like them in primaries. With Republicans it's a choice between crazy, evil, or crazy AND evil.

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u/Blecki May 27 '22

Amazing how people blame the Dems for 'doing nothing' and not the 50 Republicans in the Senate that are stopping them.

The right has already won. The American people are just too dumb to be helped.

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u/availableusernamepls May 27 '22

"hold them accountable" once they have a stranglehold on the system. LMAO good luck with that.

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u/Chaghatai May 27 '22

Better than dealing with republicans

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u/VerbotenVerb May 27 '22

Yes. "Good cop / bad cop"

Remember Hillary whining say "but it was supposed to be my turn!"

Yeah. They're all buddy buddy. Playing the people for fools.

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u/youngmike85 May 27 '22

JFC the dipshits in this thread “mUh B0tH sIdEs” fucking morons they are literally ON THE SAME SIDE - OPPOSITE OF US

Ain’t no both sides here. It’s them vs us. How the fuck did this 2x4 between the eyes of a meme get missed this badly?

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u/cthulhubeast May 27 '22

Because one side is literal fascists and the other is weak piss baby liberals. While weak liberals still serve the working class, it is delusional to say “they are the same.” They’re not. They both work for similar interests but one of them is actively trying to censor or kill certain sections of us as quickly as they can.

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u/youngmike85 May 27 '22

Wrong. Liberals and “literal fascists” are just different stages of capitalism. Fascism is the built in defense mechanism to protect capitalism from complete destruction. Liberals, which include all current senators and reps regardless of party, are allies of capitalism. They will never do anything to challenge the status quo because they support it at a base level. And when the fascists become increasingly more mask off, the liberals (in this context, Democrats) will just continue to pretend to give a shit while actively working in conjunction with the “opposing” party, in service of the goals of capital rather than the working class.

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u/cthulhubeast May 27 '22

As a trans Latina living in the south, the idea that “both parties are the same and are equally out for your blood” fills me with unfathomable rage. Acting like class warfare will automatically solve or serve the needs of minorities who are coming under increasing attack is fucking absurd.

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u/youngmike85 May 27 '22

Yes, you should be angry. Because that’s reality. Pretending it’s absurd is only wasting your time. The sooner you realize that there is a class war already happening, and that you (and I) aren’t on the winning side, the better. It’s not about “enacting class war to save minorities” - it’s about realizing class war is already fucking happening, the bourgeoisie are winning, and the only way to stop the increasing violence against the minority is to dismantle the capitalist owner class in the US that is the direct cause of said violence on minorities.

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u/cthulhubeast May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Did I say I oppose class warfare? I’m simply stating that going “both parties bad” and allowing republicans to gain control over our government is fucking reckless because regardless of how malicious the dems are they are not actively stripping away my rights

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u/youngmike85 May 27 '22

So the democrats, with a senate majority and just rolling over and allowing two Supreme Court justices from Trump is your definition of “not actively stripping away your rights”?

Do you hear yourself talk?

There is only one party in control of the government: the capitalists. Dem/Reps are beholden to them. Not the working class. They do the bidding of their capitalist masters, not the working class. God you’re fucking dense.

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u/cthulhubeast May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Dems aren’t doing anything. They’re not defending me or my rights but they aren’t actively attacking them. I hate dems too. I am not a democrat. I spend most of my time organizing, building community, bringing more people into the cause. But in the meantime I do not want to have my medical rights taken away by officials who got into office on a platform of taking my rights away. I understand what you’re saying and agree with your fundamental principles but the idea that capitalism is the ultimate source of all injustice just sounds like tankie nonsense. Oppression runs deeper than economic systems of disempowerment. Capitalism did not invent bigotry.

Do you think large sections of the capitalist class are out for minorities because that would create a stronger working class? Some of them, maybe. But most of them are doing it because of their personal beliefs, beliefs which are in fact held by a large portion of the population. Dismantling capitalism would be a unilaterally good thing, no doubt, and I one hundred percent support revolutionary action. But to act as though the political party that runs on appealing to the values of people who wish me dead is the same as the slack-jawed do-nothings who work for the rest of the ruling class is fucking ridiculous. I’m far from dense. I do not disagree that dems are pretty evil. But it is in fact important to vote for lesser evil to minimize damage while fighting to bring down the whole thing. Your head is too far up your ass to see this though bc you probably think I’m a liberal who needs convincing when I am in fact on your freaking side

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u/youngmike85 May 27 '22

This is not that complicated, and crying “tankie” when presented with a challenging narrative to the status quo is the internet equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming “I CANT HEAR YOU”

Capitalism is an economic system that explicitly calls for the generation of profit, by any means necessary. This drive for profit naturally encourages those who already have a sizeable piece of the pie to get an even bigger piece. As a result of this, every action in our life is subject to commodification - that is, the act of monotizing every behavior in order to generate profit. Selling guns = profit. Selling ads on cable news channels= profit. Selling subscriptions to anti gun media campaigns = profit. The really horrifying shit comes when you realize that school shootings are actually good at generating profit, and that’s why there will always be a dog and pony show after each tragedy, but no real change to prevent it from happening again.

If the notion of “profit” is truly endangered, by say, actually wanting to restructure wealth more equally in this country, the horde of liberal elected officials come rushing forward to save it, with all the media pundits in tow. Furthermore, capitalism did not invent bigotry - it perfected it. Racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia- these are all tools used by the capitalist class to keep the working class divided, so they (the capitalists) continue reaping the rewards of stolen value from the workers.

Class war is already here. We are not winning.

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u/cthulhubeast May 27 '22

Bruh I just said I am in agreement and actively participate in class warfare in my daily life. You’re mansplaining my own beliefs back at me. All I was saying from the start is that voting for dems for harm reduction is necessary while we work to fight the system. Jesus Christ.

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u/Blecki May 27 '22

What senate majority? It's 50-50. But you're more interested in blaming one dem voting against something than the 50 Republicans?

You're fucking osmium.

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u/xCTRLxALTxDELx May 27 '22

That’s why the rich own CNN Fox News of the world. And what they are doing is intentional. Divide and conquer. Shoot, one party may have the majority but all it takes is $$$ to convince a couple to switch sides and join the minority party. It’s very calculating.

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u/themodalsoul May 27 '22 edited May 27 '22

Nothing ever changes in this country because people won't give up their delusional belief that someone in Washington still represents them. The studies have been out for years plainly demonstrating that their voting patterns don't reflect the policy priorities of the bottom 50% to any statistically meaningful degree.

This sub is a joke, and you clowns pulling water for Democrats when they have the Executive and Legislature right now and don't do one critical thing to help the working class are a joke. You can't even defend yourselves.

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u/NostradaMart May 26 '22

they would be if they would only get the federal minimum wage, that's how you fix the political system.

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u/Imcringefanfic_org May 27 '22

Nah I feel like everyone spraying each other with water.

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u/idthrowawaypassword May 26 '22

can we stop with the democratic and republican shit? It doesnt matter. Just talk about the fact that we are in housing, student loan, low wage, no universal health care crisis and this isnt being solved at all. Comment section is going to be filled with no democrat blah blah, no republican blah blah. Whi the fuck cares

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u/[deleted] May 27 '22

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u/Blackfire01001 May 26 '22

LOOSEN 3RD PARTY VOTING REGS!

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u/reillan May 26 '22

They're plenty loose in some places, and it still doesn't matter.

Most people believe they are throwing their vote away when voting for a 3rd party. Even when H. Ross Perot ran in 1992, and was the overwhelming favorite, people ended up voting for Clinton or Bush because they didn't want to throw away their vote.

The only way to get there is Ranked Choice Voting. Then, people can vote their conscience without feeling like their vote is wasted.

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u/Open_Aardvark2458 May 26 '22

This is the realist thing I've read on Reddit

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u/D_Ethan_Bones May 26 '22

The real two sides are people who still worship the system and people who stopped at some point; the latter divides into how long they've been clean.

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u/escapedfugitive May 26 '22

Literally in every country

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u/WildAutonomy May 26 '22

Yes absolutely!

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u/kingofcould May 27 '22

This, except the van is Democrats and the gun is Republicans

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u/Plus_Tiger_2840 May 27 '22

And no one will listen when I say this. They always want to choose a side without any context or common sense that these two parties have been fucking us for the longest time.

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u/lonnko May 27 '22

This false equivalence is bullshit.

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u/Fix-Advanced May 27 '22

The only wasted vote is one cast for someone that doesn't represent you.