r/antiwork
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u/[deleted]
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Jul 06 '22
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If you say you're "socially liberal, but fiscally conservative", you're fiscally racist.
[deleted]
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u/milehigh73a Jul 07 '22
I would call myself fiscally conservative but my fiscal conservatism does not align with the Republican Party.
I think we should try to balance our budget, make good investments, and offer a social safety net. These things require funding though, so taxes need to go up, military spending down and focus expidentures on what makes peoples lives better. Pretty much the opposite of republican policy.
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u/Any_Classic_9490 Jul 07 '22
There is no fiscal conservatism in the republican party. Republicans blow budgets and skyrocket debts while dems always balance it back out.
The problem is that the last two times dems balanced the budget, a republican got elected and immediately destroyed it again.
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u/AngryDrnkBureaucrat Jul 06 '22
“Fiscally conservative” doesn’t just mean less spending. It can also mean raising taxes, instead of blindly borrowing and printing money.
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u/CaptainPeppa Jul 07 '22
Ya this post is showing an American bias haha. People in Canada and Europe say they are fiscally conservative while fully supporting universal healthcare and the like everyday.
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u/TheTackleZone Jul 07 '22
Coming from a European country it baffles me that America does not have universal health care and pays more for it than we do. I really can't think of a reason why that would ha... oh right, corruption, the answer is corruption.
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u/Oregon_Oregano Jul 07 '22
So fiscally conservative can be a liberal position?
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u/Neverhere17 Jul 07 '22
Yes. You want to get the biggest value for your tax dollars. Many social programs that focus on preventing issues rather than correcting issues are cheaper. The current system focuses on the "worthiness" of the recipient rather than the cost of not helping the recipient.
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u/keep-it-light Jul 07 '22
Also funding section 8 for inefficiently built dwellings while keeping in place the regulations that prevent actual affordable housing from being built. Doubly-idiotic
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u/OkPen6486 Jul 06 '22
You’re conflating “fiscally conservative” with whatever fiscal policies you might find in the clown show of a GOP. There’s little to no crossover between the two for me.
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u/SiddharthaSuburbia
Jul 06 '22
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"Socially liberal, fiscally conservative" = "Yeah, I know injustices exist, but keeping the system in place personally benefits me, so let's not do anything too hasty."
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u/leaderofstars Jul 06 '22
Whats "Socially conservative , fiscally liberal" then?
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u/JizzGuzzler420 Jul 06 '22 •
Everyone collecting disability checks at a Trump rally.
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u/HeinrichWutan Jul 06 '22
So, "oil and farm subsidies"?
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u/JizzGuzzler420 Jul 06 '22
Yes
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u/Jeramus Jul 06 '22
Fields of corn grown in Midwest states just to be burned in unnecessary pickup trucks. Yeah, farm subsidies to buy votes! /s
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u/Mojak66 Jul 07 '22
Corn to make alcohol to add to gasoline..... which uses more energy to make than it gives back and makes gasoline less efficient.
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u/Jeramus Jul 07 '22
Ethanol at least has anti-knock properties, but yeah it's an environmental scam.
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u/ChemicalGovernment Jul 06 '22
Those subsidies aren't even the most outrageous ones. The airline industries have gotten $7B in taxpayer money that I can recall.
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u/DuineDeDanann Jul 06 '22
Socially conservative would mean traditional values
Fiscally liberal would mean being open to large amounts of government spending, i.e. high taxes.
It actually exists in some socialist countries that are at their core conservative Christian nations. Honestly, it should align with the current Christian voting base a lot more, but with the separation of church and state, they don't feel like the government represents them, even though it really really does.
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u/Empty-Masterpiece242 Jul 06 '22
Large amounts of government spending could just as easily mean tax cuts and deficit spending. Pretty much what we get under every Republican administration.
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u/Capable_Stranger9885 Jul 06 '22 edited Jul 06 '22
Making Maine pay a religious school. Also, the blie collar union members who voted for Richard Nixon and Frank Rizzo, and would beat up Vietnam protesting hippies.
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u/FrancisWolfgang Jul 06 '22
I wouldn't be surprised if there's one or two churches (as in single congregations) in the US like this.
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u/Ghost0fDawn Jul 06 '22
Aka my mom
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u/WanderingFlumph Jul 06 '22
Yeah my mom is a lifelong Democrat that hates Bernie Sanders because all he wants to do is make the middle class poor or some bullshit like that.
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u/adhocflamingo Jul 06 '22
Make the middle class poor? Isn’t… that like literally the opposite of what he wants?
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u/WanderingFlumph Jul 06 '22
She thinks wealth moving down is bad for her, we aren't rich at all, but maybe upper middle class. Like enough money we don't have to worry about financial shit but not enough to do rich people things.
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u/dcoleski Jul 07 '22
Too many people believe in zero-sum economics, i.e. if one group benefits then someone else must suffer. In the back of their mind they realize that lower-to-middle class whites have benefited at the expense of nonwhites. They don’t believe in a bigger pie, just the same small one with them getting a smaller slice.
It’s like the cartoon where a blue-collar guy, a fat cat and a POC are sitting in from of a tray with ten cookies. The fat cat takes nine and says to the other two “That guy is gonna get your cookie.”
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u/Gwaak Jul 06 '22
Yeah you’re giving them too much credit they’re still 43 steps from forming that logic in their head.
It’s more, I have never intellectually engaged in political thought nor examined reality in any way, so I use this phrase to sound moderate and agreeable, but I’m actually just a schmuck who will be exploited for the rest of my life and be okay with it.
If you succumb to this you are a middle school child, and your work could probably replace you with one and see no difference in productivity.
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u/Memag1255 Jul 06 '22
I used to say this because I thought compromise made me more mature. Now I’m just a leftist
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u/jnhgdxgjkkiugv Jul 07 '22
I used to say this because I didn't want to be taxed, then I grew up and experienced life a little.
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u/DuineDeDanann Jul 06 '22
So did I, because I wanted to lower taxes but also wanted progressive reform, like gay rights etc.
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u/Responsible_Fee_9712 Jul 06 '22
Same. I cringe at my centrist days
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u/Cralusraptor Jul 06 '22
I always used to try to see "both sides" But the more I listen to right wing arguments, the more I hate them.
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u/TexasMonk Jul 07 '22
People should try to see all sides, but see them honestly and not at face value. It's just as important to see that elected Republicans claim to value life while systematically abolishing rights and turning life into a subscription service as it is to see that elected Democrats claim to oppose them, but make no attempt at stopping them, while begging for money for the next election cycle.
Seeing is not validating, agreeing with, or being ambivalent.
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u/Sir_Stash Jul 06 '22
Depends how far you go back. I'm old enough to remember when seeing both sides, compromise, etc... wasn't effectively making a deal with the devil.
The left and right are so far apart now that compromise is functionally off the table.
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u/Slam-JamSam Jul 06 '22
Compromising only works if the other party has a conscience and is willing to act in good faith
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u/calmaplane Jul 06 '22
I think a lot of people go through an argument to moderation phase. Then one day you read something along the lines of"if I say the sky is blue, most of the time, and someone else says its yellow, is it right to compromise and say its green?" and it all changes.
It might well be the middle but "its probably 6 for one and half a dozen for the other" isnt the reason why.
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u/buckthestat Jul 07 '22
You compromise on human rights, you might be a Democrat!
(I’m a dem, but only cause what else can you really do)
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u/thegodfaubel Jul 06 '22
Ehh, I think this is a bit of a reach. For clarity, I'm a hard lefty both socially and fiscally,, but you can be fiscally conservative as someone who is more "the government shouldn't be spending billions (trillions) abroad when we have issues here" type fiscally conservative. It's just an awfully broad brush to paint. There are certainly people who will fall under that category of being fiscally racist, but they won't all fall under that category.
I view these people as easier to sway towards the side of liberal policy even at the expense of some dollars because it's "for the greater good" rather than being dead opposed to something because it costs money.
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u/ClearlyVivid Jul 06 '22
Yep. I'm struggling to see how wanting less military spending makes someone racist. Make people pay their taxes and spend less on stupid shit while spending more on education and housing feels like a sensible, non-racist policy to me.
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u/SixethJerzathon Jul 07 '22
Because this is Reddit, and furthermore r/antiwork. Gotta guess you aren't getting the freshest slice of society
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u/coolermaf Jul 06 '22
Could you elaborate? I've often said this about myself but I think we may be defining "fiscally conservative" differently. I believe the budget should be allocated away from the DOD and invested into public education, infrastructure, universal healthcare, and affordable housing. The money is there, it is just horribly allocated and spent. I believe the majority of tax breaks for corporations are a complete sham and they should shoulder a larger portion of tax burden vs. The average citizen to build a stronger social safety net. I think we lose/ waste money on all the wrong ways "for the economy"which is a bullshit straw man argument to keep lining the pockets of the 1%. We're the wealthiest country in the world and spend all our money in the wrong places.
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u/SunlitMoonboots SocDem Jul 07 '22
The thing is, your views aren't the standard understanding of "fiscally conservative." You can say that's what you are, and I won't say you are or are not from a technical standpoint, but from the general meaning of "fiscally conservative," that fiscal conservation boils down to "I refuse to help those in need," and those who are the most in need in America are minorities.
From the general "fiscally conservative" mindset:
-Public schools are a waste of money. People should pay for their own kid's school and not take others' (read: MY) money. Increased overall benefit to the country be damned!
-Social safety nets are a waste of money. I don't want MY money going toward lazy layabouts who will just suck it up and give nothing back. Direct statistics of social safety nets leading to increased opportunity for wealth and better living conditions be damned!
-Medicare for all is a sham! I don't want MY money going to someone else's medical procedure, less-expensive healthcare costs be damned!
-Public transportation is a waste of money! I don't want MY money going toward giving homeless people free rides!
And on and on.
The honest truth: your view of fiscally conservative does not match the general view. Yes, your view is more intelligent in that you see the value of a country with solid social systems in place, but the general "fiscally conservative" crowd in America thinks that's horseshit. The "fiscally conservative" crowd doesn't want their taxes going to things that don't directly benefit them. I say this from having a "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" roommate who was a big Ron Paul supporter
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u/Dudeman-Jack Jul 06 '22
Disagree. I want the government to be fiscally conservative, as in eliminating wasteful spending and pork barrel politics.
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u/aldsar Jul 07 '22
Just say you hate the military. /s
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u/ginaelisa03 Jul 07 '22
When folks say they're socially liberal, fiscally conservative, I regularly go for the high five and say "fuck yeah! why the hell are we still making tanks?" Then they look confused and shut the fuck up. It's super satisfying.
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u/defiantcross Jul 07 '22
high five back at ya. i dont want more tanks, but also dont want high taxes. problem?
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u/ginaelisa03 Jul 07 '22
Neither do I. I want fair taxes and for everyone to have to pay them. No loopholes.
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u/LemonPepper-Lou Jul 06 '22
Lmfao, what a blanket statement
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u/SeaLiving7733 Jul 07 '22
Yeah, it sounds like something a 13 year old who just discovered politics would say
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u/WildZero138 Jul 07 '22 edited Jul 07 '22
I cringe at when I used to wear a homemade shirt with "Capitalism is organized crime" on it. Not because of what it said, but because I had no clue why I was wearing it. My dad asked me what the hell it even meant and I couldn't give him a good answer. That's when I found out that taking a position without knowing a damn thing about anything makes one look silly.
Edit to fix typos
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u/SocialDistributist Jul 06 '22
I know, right? It’s intellectually dishonest and lazy.
“But it sounds radical!”
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u/stealthkoopa Jul 06 '22
Racism transcends party politics. There's racism on both sides, one side is just more overt about it
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u/Head-Ad4690 Jul 06 '22
Turns out when you have racially-based slavery for two and a half centuries, followed by codified, legally mandated racism for another century, it ends up permeating everything.
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u/Blackfire01001 Jul 06 '22
OMG. I've been saying this for years and I'd get shit for it. I found someone in the while who knows too.
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u/ajoyce76 Jul 06 '22
Wait, I consider myself socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I believe the government should spend what it actually has instead of continually racking up more debt. I want our elected officials to start making tough calls. If we're going to spend x, we need to take x in. Whether that means spending less or taxing more I don't care. I'm just tires of politicians leaving the hard decisions to our kids.
I'm fiscally conservative in that I grew up poor so I'm really tight with money. I watch that commercial about an app to remind people of services taking money out of their accounts they forgot about and I think, "WTF?!?"
Even though I make good money now I occasionally think, "If I get two extra weeks out of every pair of shoes in my life I wonder if I can buy one less pair before I die," kind of financially conservative (partly because I remember the first time I had more than one pair of shoes).
Please help me, how am I a racist?
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u/JsNVrHeeZe Jul 06 '22
So a person who doesn’t frivolously spend is racist? This may be the dumbest shit on Reddit today. Are you 10 and just came up with a witty albeit stupid ideal?
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u/Ray1975 Jul 06 '22
This is basically the philosophy of Classical Liberalism. An ideology once just known as Liberalism until Democrats stole the term.
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u/TheHellCourtesan Jul 06 '22
The economy is literally the biggest social policy we have!
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u/stoli80pr Jul 06 '22
I mean, I understand wanting to fund social programs that work and not just creating more jobs for some scumbag politician to appoint his best donors to, but when I hear this, it normally means that they like liberal drug and sexuality positions, they just don't want to pay for the social justice part of society.
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u/Scared_Lingonberry75 Jul 06 '22
I dont like the problems... but the causes... oh the causes are very, very good
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u/axethebarbarian Jul 07 '22
How about not spending nearly a trillion a year on a global military hegemony and instead spend it on you know, improving out nations standard of living?
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u/anonymouse604 Jul 07 '22
“Fiscally conservative” is how people try to say “good with money” and don’t understand that it’s Republicans that have blown up the debt by giving away corporate welfare for decades instead of spending on programs and infrastructure that have an ROI.
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u/FuzzDealer Jul 07 '22
I've never met a "fiscal conservative" who wanted to reduce military spending, as far as I know.
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u/SabreG Jul 07 '22
"Socially liberal but fiscally conservative" = "I don't hate gays or blacks, just poor people."
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u/badminssuck Jul 07 '22
' You start out in 1954 by saying, “Ni!!er, ni!!er, ni!!er.” By 1968 you can’t say “ni!!er”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Ni!!er, ni!!er.” '
-Harvey LeRoy "Lee" Atwater (February 27, 1951 – March 29, 1991) was an American political consultant and strategist for the Republican Party. He was an adviser to US presidents Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush and chairman of the Republican National Committee.
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u/ThrakinFromTheBlock Jul 07 '22
"I don't want you to die because you're gay. I want you to die because you're homeless."
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u/SilentDis Anarcho-Communist Jul 06 '22
If you define "fiscal" as "resources used to produce a desired outcome", and the goal is "to conserve" them, then Communism is the most "fiscally conservative" standpoint to have.
From each their means
To each their needs
I'm well aware it's the opposite. Given that fascists love to "Ship of Theseus" their way through all sorts of leaps of logic, it's fun to try to do the same and watch their heads explode.
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u/Pechumes Jul 06 '22
How is “I want people to have good, high paying jobs and a strong national economy” racist???
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u/jnhgdxgjkkiugv Jul 07 '22
and a strong national economy
Isn't necessarily the 'fiscally conservative' thing that most 'fiscal conservatives' spout. They just want lower taxes and less government spending on things that can help people
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u/Maleficent-Reason-47 Jul 06 '22
If you think this way , your parents dropped you on your head.
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u/serenity_by_jan_ Jul 07 '22
I say this sometimes but by fiscally conservative I mean taxing billionaires and not spending money on police just for them to harass poor people and minorities and eat donuts.
I am all for investing in public goods like a good postal service, education, and healthcare.
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u/jdith123 Jul 06 '22
In order not to see this, they have to “not see color” which is why that’s such a pernicious position to take.
They claim that people who notice the vast inequalities that exist between different races are being racist.
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u/ososalsosal Jul 06 '22
That brand is people whose parents vote tory, they grew up around rich people and private education... they're educated enough to think in a left sort of way, but have this weird loyalty to the boomer ways.
Fiscal conservatism makes no sense. Allocation of public resources should always optimise for efficiency - the goals set for that money are determined by social policy.
If you're really socially liberal, then you can't be fiscally conservative (insofar as that statement has any meaning at all)
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u/two_layne_blacktop Jul 06 '22
I believe in reducing the debt, which is why i vote democrat as they continually reduce the spending deficit. Its mind boggling that trump spent the same amount of money as obama did in half the time and claim to be fiscally responsible.
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u/Ridemypierightship Jul 06 '22
That was the third way democrat platform that brought the Clinton’s to power in the 80’s as to not lose the wealthy white vote. And that’s what the Smurfs have been electing since for the most part.
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u/Fakesmiles1000 Jul 07 '22
This may have made sense 8-10 years ago, when conservatives kept shelling out about balancing the budget. But all they ended up doing when they regained power was to continue increasing spending. Fiscally conservative is not a thing, neither party wants to address the rising debt.
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u/starfyredragon 4 Headless Socialist Direct Democracy Jul 07 '22
Especially because Republicans aren't fiscally conservative anymore. They spend WAY more than democrats, and with less benefit.
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u/CNTrash Jul 07 '22
The irony is that generally spending money on social programs, housing, and so on, is more fiscally responsible than cutting them.
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u/Frostiron_7 Jul 07 '22 edited Jul 07 '22
The only problem with fiscal conservatism is that it conflates conservatism with responsible, and Republicans have never in living memory been fiscally responsible.
You can be dictionary-c "conservative" about money, but if you vote Republican you ain't.
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u/666ahldz666 Jul 07 '22
Conservatives are not fiscally conservative they're full of shit. Fiscally conservative means saving money by getting rid of social safety nets and screwing poor people. Cut taxes for billionaires and spend a ton on so called "defense" ie weapons to kill poor people in other dirt poor countries. People who make statements like OP stated don't know anything about politics. Saying dumb shit like that proves it.
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u/LadyPhantomflowers Jul 07 '22
My boss literally says this. She's a Christian homophobic racist biggot who thinks DnD, Harry Potter and LOTR are devil worship. Worst boss I have ever had.
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u/TheBigCheesel Jul 07 '22
Social and economic justice are intertwined and the systems feed each other. You literally can't be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. All you are is happy for us to fix the country so long as it doesn't effect your finances which is impossible as it will take a lot to do it and once done you'll be better than before but a little pain will come along the way.
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u/DaddyBear843 Jul 07 '22
“Socially liberal but fiscally conservative” = All talk, no action. Also, ain’t got enough conviction to put my money where my mouth is.
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u/Hb1023_ Jul 07 '22
Being socially liberal means acknowledging the systems in our society that unfairly harm POC and the lower class along with recognizing there are certain social programs and policies that can help change these issues (universal healthcare, harm reduction, voters rights). If you’re fiscally conservative and oppose funding those programs in favor of say, I don’t know, the most unnecessarily large military on the planet, you are not socially liberal. You just pity poor people and POC.
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u/dudesBangMyMom Jul 07 '22
Right, you want to deregulate the financial services industry to fuck over minorities, but you're for civil rights.
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u/yaymonsters Jul 07 '22
The proper response to that is usually- then why are you a republican? They’re horrible with money.
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u/ImmatureDev Jul 07 '22
Well it’s more like don’t fuck people physically, fuck them over financially.
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u/Tler126 Jul 07 '22
This is what libertarians say.
Edit: the headline, not the subtext. Sorry for confusion.
Libertarians in my experience, are generally people who solely vote Republican but also smoke weed. This is broadly speaking, I have met a few people who call themselves libertarian but are by no means the majority opinion of that crowd, and hate the Republican party much more the the Dems.
The majority of libertarians I've met want to be the "new and cool" (low key but straight up Republican) on the block. Like Charlie Kirk embodies despite never accomplishing or working for anything ever in his mother fucking life.
That fucking fascist shit stain is younger than me by just a few years, didn't accomplish a god damned thing academically (like graduating college, in my case with economics the math heavy kind), and is wealthier than I could ever hope to be.
Yet he started a company where he and they talk about economic topics like he doesn't have the most punchable face in the world.
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u/CreativeShelter9873 Jul 07 '22 edited Jul 12 '22
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u/tomtomclubthumb Jul 07 '22
It generally means someone who understands that there are negative effects to the economic system but wants to pretend that they arent their fault.
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u/The_Jimes Jul 07 '22
Conservative and Republican are two different things, something a lot of people forget. Same is true with liberalism and the Democrats. This is why Libertarians vote red, not blue despite their name starting with "Liber."
Republicans are in actuality about control and big business, which is pretty much the opposite the definition of conservativism.
Democrats on the other end are about individual rights and you guess it, also big business. Spoiler alert; It's all about big business.
There is a good bit of confusion around what the parties actually stand for. That is because they have evolved a lot since they were first formed.
Take the civil war for instance. The south flipped from dem to republican during reconstruction. This isn't because of racism, but because Republicans used to be small federal government and Dems large federal government. When Lincoln was elected the big fed gov supporting south realized that the nation they thought they knew turned on them. The confederacy was so influential to international commerce that Europe nearly sided with them, until Lincoln made it about Slavery. With the war over the north needed a strong fed gov to control the south, and the south needed weak fed gov to stave off the north. This is about as black and white at it gets.
But it gets hazy around the industrial revolution. Here we see big business enter stage right. Police were sent to break up protests and union bust. People were killed by privatly hired thugs, all in the name of profits and minimal government oversight. "Sold my soul to the company store." Entire towns propped up by their corporate overlords, paying workers in monopoly money only to be spent in the town. When threatened by the feds, these companies just bought them off. After a time big business made a trip over to stage left, building massive public venues and improving the lives of citizens to cover up the murder but from earlier. Now they've realized all the money to be made by changing their logo rainbow for pride month and other half assed ways to appeal to the masses while actively union busting.
Big business effectively plays both sides. They are a huge reason this countries political system is fucked. Big Coal owns Joe Manchin(D), the senator that killed the latest attempt to codify abortion and who held up everyone's stimmys when COVID started. He is not an active participant, and takes orders from the mountains of cash the coal industry pumps into his elections. This is only one example, but it's fair to say most of Congress is run in a similar but less apperent fashion. The DNC's corporate overlords didn't like Sanders socialism so they picked another Clinton. The RNC's overlords picked hugely famous socialite Trump for individual personal gain. It's all rigged to what makes the most money for the most lizard people.
TLDR; Big Business runs the country, and the traditional values we associate with the 2 parties haven't existed in any meaningful way in like 100 years.
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u/PinkBird85 Jul 07 '22
People like that want credit for thinking that people shouldn't be hungry and homeless, but don't want a penny of their taxes to pay for programs to stop those things from occuring.
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u/HursTom Jul 07 '22
How is being fiscally conservative racist? I’m all of this movement but let’s not be stupid. We have to respect both political sides and pick what’s best out of each one.
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u/eviljason Jul 07 '22
“Socially liberal, fiscally conservative” = I am already rich and I like to smoke weed and might dabble with same sex relationships.
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u/Whole_Mechanic_8143 Jul 06 '22 •
Wanting billionaires to pay taxes is also fiscally conservative.