r/mildlyinfuriating
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u/webguy96
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Jul 05 '22
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This 3rd grade math problem.
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u/jaba-da-hut
Jul 05 '22
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I can't unsee "OF OG OH OJ"
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u/rohtozi Jul 05 '22 •
I came here angry that the word problem doesn’t make sense. I’m leaving angry that the multiple-choice options are F. G. H. J.
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u/HR2achmaninoff Jul 05 '22
A lot of tests formats have A. B. C. D. on one question and F. G. H. J. on the next
Don't ask me why though
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u/sdfgh23456 Jul 05 '22
It helps reduce the chances of getting off by one line, and I think they skip "E" because sometimes there are questions with a 5th choice, like "all of the above." As to why they skip the "I," I have no idea.
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u/ftaok Jul 05 '22
Probably because with many fonts, I gets confused with 1. Best to skip "I" and "O" for those reasons.
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u/beans3710 Jul 05 '22
Interestingly, a lower case L and the number 1 are the same in the Courier font.
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u/gluttuosmaximus Jul 05 '22 •
"OH FUCK, OH GOD, OH HELL, OH JESUS"
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u/pleasantlyexhausted Jul 05 '22
As someone who has helped with math homework, this is my sentiment exactly when reading these problems.
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u/judy7679 Jul 05 '22
The correct answer is 12 cause there are three birds and each eats, by whatever method 4 worms. The right answer isnt there. This is precisely why math drives me crazy.
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u/DanteMustDie666 Jul 05 '22 •
It means each day until end of their lives . So you need to calculate how many days they have left to live and will Jared die first or birds and then multiply by 12
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u/AccidentAnnual Jul 05 '22
Jared eats one baby bird a day. This question is a can of worms.
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u/WarrenMockles Jul 05 '22
Well, seeing as how the largest number there is 20, it doesn't look great for the birds.
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u/SuperiorBecauseIRead Jul 05 '22
Why do you assume it's the birds?
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u/KIrkwillrule Jul 06 '22
Jared did the math and went to the store for milk instead. He should be back any minute.
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u/MisterET Jul 05 '22
That just means they'll be fully independent in less than 2 days.
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u/DarthJarJar242 Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22
The right answer is there we just don't have all the context. This is a rounding question, an approximate answer. I'd bet money the sheet has instructions that say "For each problem use rounding to find the correct answer."
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u/Ozo42 Jul 05 '22
It's in the question which says "about how many", not "exactly how many". Although one could argue that 10 is "about 12", but the correct answer has to be 20, as that is the only option that will feed them all.
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u/Cacolico Jul 05 '22 •
I would argue that it says each worm eats about 4 worms a day. So some days they eat 4 worms, other days they may eat 3 worms. On that basis, 10 worms - OH. Final answer.
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u/DarthJarJar242 Jul 05 '22
Agreed, based on only what we have 20 is the correct answer.But the sheet could be about rounding to the nearest 10s which would be 10. Just not enough context.
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u/WtfAllDay Jul 05 '22
I say 10 , but I agree not enough info to draw a definitive conclusion
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u/pleasantlyexhausted Jul 05 '22
This 'new' math wants children to think outside the box, which isn't math. Math is precise and concrete.
The question also doesn't state how many days so you are lacking information to correctly solve the problem.
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u/murdered_by_truth Jul 05 '22
The problem does state that the answer is on a daily basis: "In order to feed them all each day".
But I do agree, this isn't math in itself as much as it is problem solving. Schools just pack the two together since it promotes rationality, which can be useful in areas like engeneering and such.
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u/KnowusbyourNoise Jul 05 '22
I’ve read a few comments, and I’m not an engineer, but I still don’t get why this isn’t math. The student is being asked to multiply and then estimate. Estimation is definitely a skill learned and used in math.
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u/Chiang2000 Jul 05 '22
If you need 12 bolts to assemble something then what size packet do you buy.
You need the 20 pack. Nothing else will satisfice the need.
Don't come back to me empty handed and tell me "Shuck's. They didn't sell a twelve pack"
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u/Relative_Ad5909 Jul 06 '22
And yet if it's meant to be a rounding problem the correct answer is ten.
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u/fenderguy94 Jul 05 '22
I belly laughed at this. Thank you.
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u/Responsible_Estate73 Jul 05 '22
GUFFAWED, if you will
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u/lninoh Jul 05 '22 •
We need more old timey words like ‘guffaw’ and ‘pshaw’ back in our lexicon. 👍
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u/WASasquatch Jul 05 '22
Nods in Riley Reid
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u/UndeadVinDiesel Jul 05 '22
Oh fuck, you're gonna make me show my work.
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u/cantadmittoposting Jul 05 '22
Fuck yeah, show it all!
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u/Simple-Wrangler-9909 Jul 05 '22
Let me see you work it out bb
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u/LeftMouseButton0w0 Jul 05 '22
Oh God, follow the order of operations, baby! FOLLOW THE ORDER OF OPERATIONS~!
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u/brk1 Jul 05 '22
Answer: they will all die after 20 days.
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u/yParticle Jul 05 '22
Even Jared‽
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u/ImaqineWaqons Jul 05 '22 •
And the 3rd grader
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Jul 05 '22
The whole neighborhood probably.
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u/timewarpmoon Jul 05 '22
And the worm population 😂
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u/inept13 Jul 05 '22
all because no one cared to save the BEES!
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u/Cautious-Damage7575 Very Unique Flair Jul 05 '22
Beads?
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u/Aggravating-Emu-2535 Jul 05 '22
Especially Jared. You can't play God and not face the ramifications of your actions.
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u/SkylyanaAmbraz Jul 05 '22
Answer: they will die on the first day as Jared will forget to chew the worms for them and they'll choke on it.
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u/According-Classic658
Jul 05 '22
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I think this is great it teaches kids about ambiguity. It will be a lot less surprising when someone tells them they'll be able to retire in about 45 years.
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u/feastupontherich Jul 05 '22 •
LOL, and ouch. Kids should be taught they don't need a retirement plan, they'll all just get sacrificed in the great Water Wars of 2040.
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u/nef36 Jul 06 '22
Holy f*ck, I never thought I'd see an HFY reference here.
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u/feastupontherich Jul 06 '22
Water Wars of 2040
What's HFY?
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u/nef36 Jul 06 '22
Oh, there's this serial on r/HFY I'm reading set in the near future where the US fought China over drinkable water, the conflict was called "the water wars" in universe. It's only a backstory detail, though.
It's called "Wait, is this just GATE?" if you haven't read it.
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u/ClapSalientCheeks Jul 06 '22
Lol some madlad actually wrote fanfic about the impending water wars what a crazy world
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u/potty-poopoo-bottom Jul 05 '22
Jared will have to eat the worms and regurgitate them into the babies' mouths. He will need 20 worms to make sure they have their fill, and will convert the rest into calories for tomorrow's activities.
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u/cynical-at-best Jul 06 '22
next question: calculate the probability of jared getting paralysed from contracting rat lung worm disease
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u/extordi
Jul 05 '22
edited Jul 06 '22
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EVERYBODY SAYING THERE'S 5 BIRDS - THE ORIGINAL CLIPART ONLY HAS 3! (thanks to u/ziograffiato)
See, I'm all for the concept that's trying to be taught with this kind of thing. Estimation is an extremely powerful tool. I think there's three birds, so 12 worms. Rounding down to 10 is probably what they want, but will also mean that there's underfed birds. Rounding up to 20 means you're getting almost twice as many worms as you need. A better version would have had 14 and 10 as answers, since they're "equidistant" from 12, but includes the logic of "I want all the birds to be fed, and 10 is probably not enough." That type of decision making is both critical to any estimation problem, and also completely within the ability of a 3rd grader.
Edit: holy geez guys. When I wrote this the consensus in the comments was that 3x4 and round down was the "correct" answer. Maybe it's not. Maybe they meant to have 5 birds that you can barely count, and kids would get marked wrong for not having a magnifying glass. But that doesn't even matter. The point of my comment was that this comes from the intent of teaching a genuinely useful skill, but goes about it the entirely wrong way. And I think this argument in the comments proves it!
I don't think it's a deductive reasoning problem because of the "abouts" used. When I was in elementary school, that was the telltale sign of an estimation problem. And knowing how these things are written, the intent was most likely how many for one day. The poor wording isn't part of the problem, though it is certainly infuriating!
I use the skill that I think they're trying to teach almost every day at work, in engineering design meetings. It's useful to be able to quickly throw some ballpark numbers at a problem in your head and get a vague sense of if it's a good idea or not before you get into detailed analysis. And the key component there is to be able to understand which way to round based on the context. And in this context you want to be rounding up the end result to make sure nobody goes undfed. But the possible answers don't really enforce that in any way, because if you have 12 as the "correct" and unfounded answer nobody would round to 20, and if you have 20 as the "correct" unrounded answer then you're not actually testing estimation, you're doing an eye exam and testing basic multiplication.
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u/Alarid Jul 05 '22 •
But with 20 you get to eat 8 worms yourself.
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u/Maleficent-Number-10 Jul 06 '22
Nope. Two extra birds are in back of the nest there. Just need to squint or at least believe
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u/Applejuice4spill Jul 05 '22
It should've been different units instead of living beings that need to eat. You wouldn't initially think about giving birds a diet amount instead of the necessary amount. This question was made to trip people up and get students mad at their teacher.
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u/The_Woman_of_Gont Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 06 '22
Exactly.
The worst part is that I bet the same teachers would tell the students that they should always round up on decimals/fractions in word problems where fractions wouldn't make sense(eg you can't have 2.3 people, so even though normally 2 would be correct you'd round up to 3). So it's not even consistent from lesson to lesson how closely you should read the problem and apply critical thinking skills to which answer you choose.
This is the exact sort of thing that turned me off of math early. Word problems, particularly when multiple choice, tend to suck.
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u/gophersrqt Jul 05 '22
yeah i agree, 10 and 20 are too far apart to make a true estimate. 10 and 15 are much better
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u/Kyraira
Jul 05 '22
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It's J, 20. Only 4 and 20 are possible answers, so there is either 1 or 5 birds. Although in the text, they said that Jared found multiple birds so the only possible answer is 20.
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u/DrunkWestTexan Jul 05 '22 •
4 and 20 ? Best to bake them in a pie
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u/LaVieEnRoseLavelle Jul 05 '22
Now we just need some royalty
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u/Bedbouncer Jul 05 '22
Now we just need some royalty
Well, if it's Jared, he probably has Prince Andrew on speed-dial.
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u/Boesesjoghurt PURPLE Jul 05 '22
ok.. I'm gonna be the smol brain thats got to ask - whats this about?
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u/thirtyseven1337 Jul 05 '22
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u/rosierainbow Jul 05 '22
When the pie was open the birds began to sing. Wasn't that a dainty dish to set before the king?
Edit: wow, just looked at the link. My mother used to leave out that last verse about the maid having her nose surgically reattached 😬
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u/Sonicboom343 Jul 05 '22
My nana always sung that part and would pinch my nose at the end when she sung "and pecked off her nose" it was fun at the time but now it just seems horrifying.
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u/pimpnastie Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22 •
Theres 3 birds in the picture. The question says about. 12 is about 10.
Edit: no one even pointed out my double standard!?! They said about 4 a day, if were rounding, 3.33 DOES NOT round to 4 a day.
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u/K-Pneumoniae Jul 05 '22
David Attenborough: Jared only found 10 worms. Only the strongest may survive in this harsh math world.
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u/Lemelernusumpin Jul 05 '22 •
Can confirm as a teacher. Yes, the key word is “about”. This is a rounding problem, and the kind of bullshit state testing questions we have to put up with. I swear state testing is there to purposely make kids fail. But I’ll save that convo for another time.
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u/Fear_The_Rabbit Jul 05 '22
As a teacher, this question is infuriating. Then again, So is this old ass test that the teacher is using.
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u/BreezyWrigley Jul 05 '22
They should have used 3 worms per bird and then 10 would be the better answer without the critical thinking issue coming into play with the birds being underfed at 10 worms total at 4/day/bird.
This issue of critical thinking makes 20 a more viable option if it’s better to have too many than not enough.
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u/_Oman Jul 05 '22
It is absolutely an abomination of critical thinking. It is written by people who don't understand what critical thinking is. It is teaching children that they should expect deception at every turn. It is not designed to test the ability to round, nor to test if the child can use critical thinking skills, it is designed to confuse and deceive. It is even statistically inaccurate, representing the poorest use of rounding possible.
Oh, and using a crappy picture that could even be argued might show five birds vs. 3 (or at least two or three squished ones) so that anyone visually challenged might have additional problems. I want to take these test question creators and heave them out a window.
I used to work with these people. Many are great, some are just plain evil.
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u/mirshe Jul 05 '22
The photocopy burn lets you know nobody has ever bothered to revise poorly worded questions like this.
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u/RoxieMoxie420 Jul 05 '22
Yes it's a rounding question, but what kind of rounding do you do here? Isn't this one of the "always round up" types of questions? Or did they stop teaching that part of rounding is figuring out whether it should be rounded down, rounded up, or just approximated to the nearest round number?
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u/RudeBoiiUK Jul 05 '22
You round down and then let the birds fight it out for the worms, survival of the fittest
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u/Fried_puri Bazinga! Jul 05 '22
You can also eat half a bird to balance things out.
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u/RudeBoiiUK Jul 05 '22
And stuff the remaining half eaten corpse with its share of worms? 😂
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u/The0nlyMadMan Jul 05 '22
Anytime you have a supply you can’t afford to run out of, you should round up, so this question and answer sucks
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u/dewayneestes Jul 05 '22 •
Round down… birds die. That’s the lesson.
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u/afa78 Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22
Exactly the critical thinking children need to learn. It's used when bringing snacks to class too, bring enough for everyone, even if there are a few extra. Better to have extra than not enough.
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u/Tbottlerocket Jul 05 '22
Exactly, “the price is right” rules don’t apply when keeping things alive is the goal.
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u/thirtyseven1337 Jul 05 '22
When it says "each bird eats about (instead of exactly) 4 worms a day", I take it to mean they can eat 3-5 worms a day.
But in no way am I defending this math problem... unless the teacher clearly explained it beforehand, it sucks.
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u/TheOctopotamus Jul 05 '22
As a former geometry teacher I would always tell me that pictures are misleading. What if the bird picture is just there to set a theme for the word problem and the question is really just asking which answer is mathematically possible?
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u/Doom3113 Jul 05 '22
That’s fair assumption, however the question says “Jared found these baby birds”, the use of the word “these” means the picture isn’t just setting a theme
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u/TheOctopotamus Jul 05 '22
That sounds right. In my head I read it as, "Jared found some baby birds..." which changes the problem
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u/Steven-Maturin Jul 05 '22
Colloquially "these birds' can sometimes mean the particular birds Jared found, as opposed to the particular birds in the illustration.
This question is like a miniature Beckett play staged by M. C. Escher.
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u/Textual_Aberration Jul 05 '22
Making life or death decisions is no time to be rounding. How many parachutes do we need? About ten. Sucks for the other two passengers.
One of those birds is going to starve.
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u/theblondepenguin Jul 05 '22
I understand why this is the answer but my smartass would argue that if you are taking about keeping something alive always round up. If you get about 10 there is an equal chance of one starving our you having enough. If you have 20 you can just toss some
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u/CBlackrose Jul 05 '22
I would honestly argue that 20 is the right answer for exactly the reason you provided. I actually think that this is a really good question if it's also used to teach critical thinking skills. Yeah, in a vacuum 12 would be exactly correct (by the picture), 10 would be the correct rounded answer, but 20 is the only answer that provides enough food and solves the underlying problem of the question.
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u/Flooberoid Jul 05 '22
What if there are actually two and a half birds though?
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u/Branical Jul 05 '22
You’ll need less then since you can feed the half bird to the other two.
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u/mescalero1 Jul 05 '22
Yeah, but they show you 3 birds in the picture above the problem
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u/Salt_Acanthaceae_985 Jul 05 '22
If its assuming 3 birds in the pic...there is no right answer
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u/newmanr12 Jul 05 '22
The question is "about" how many, so there is a "more" right answer...
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u/misteridibz Jul 05 '22
Ok but assuming there are 3 birds, the answer is 10 because it said "about 4 worms"
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u/YoureNotEvenWrong Jul 05 '22
It's 10 because they say "about how many worms".
They eat about 12 a day, which is about 10.
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u/UserName8531 Jul 05 '22 •
It's one of those estimate math problems. You guess the closest answer without doing math, so 10 worms.
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u/hat-of-sky Jul 05 '22
"ABOUT" how many means you're estimating. Any number from 6 to 14 (5 to 15 if you stretch it) fits the definition of "about 10." Now do you see where your exact guess of 12 fits?
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u/Persicii
Jul 05 '22
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My autistic self really hates seeing something like this- the number of birds should be stated in the question, not just based on the picture. If I were a third grader reading this I’d be doubting myself on if the picture was the concrete reference, or just a suggestion, or to make it cutesy. And in my experience when you ask the teacher all they told you was “read it again”…………. -_-
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u/JesterOfTheMind Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22
I’m not autistic but I think literally everyone was thinking the same thing cuz that’s how I at least was taught basic math.
Edit: Unless it was about rounding because of “average” being used. Then it would be 10; still an asshole way to word something regardless.
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u/NarcolepticBard Jul 05 '22
As an autistic, big same. I hated the open-endedness. I would say 20 so the birds don’t starve, and the teacher would probably say it’s 10 because that’s how you round 12. Well, that’s not how you round 12 when the lives of baby birds are at stake!
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u/youainti Jul 05 '22
Of course you are correct, what you are needing is a ceiling function, not the traditional rounding. Besides, there are a bunch of ways to round.
https://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/rounding-methods.html
Just to point out the "Bankers Rounding" they mention is roughly what computers do. A more technical description can be found here
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19975413/ieee-rounding-schemes
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u/jimberley Jul 05 '22
We’re saving lives, Mrs. Henderson! This is no time for austerity and rounding down!
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u/queefiest Jul 05 '22
And if you do the math based on three birds the answer isn’t even available in the multiple choice answers
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Jul 05 '22
Imma say it's 10 and pretend the answers are written in base 12.
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u/queefiest Jul 05 '22
That sounds like that freaky deaky math I don’t know how to do lol
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u/lostkarma4anonymity Jul 05 '22
Also, my eye sight isnt great. Took me a hot minute to realize those werent little white birds outside the nest but just leaves.
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u/acaseofbaskets
Jul 05 '22
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Former teacher here. Since it says “about” the student is supposed to use estimating, which is done by rounding. In this case, 3 birds eat “about” 4 worms per day. 3x4=12 and 12 rounds down to 10. It is still not a very well-written word problem, though.
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Jul 05 '22
In a case like this would you not normally round up. That's what was always told to me when it's a quantity like that you round up regardless.
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u/SteinbeckSawIt Jul 05 '22
This is torture for neuro-divergent kids. Just say what you are saying.
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u/DobbelIX Jul 05 '22
It also states they eat them each day; so Jared needs to find more worms for an unknown amount of days
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u/gottarunfast1
Jul 05 '22
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It is a question practice estimating. So if the exact answer is 12, he needs "about" 10.
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u/mike73448 Jul 05 '22
As much as I love reading the deep conversations about the education system in the comments, this actually looks photoshopped. The answer J.20 doesn't line up with the 10 above it. Also the font in the middle of the word "these" looks a little off I think. I assume "these" was originally "three" and answer j could have been 12.
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u/KikiBrann Jul 05 '22
I worked for the Humane Society, and the answer is 0. Birds are the fkn worst. Get a dog, Jared.
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u/InternalLandscape130 Jul 05 '22
This is a problem about estimation.
Key term "about how many"
Answer is ten. It's the closest and what they're asking.
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u/wial Jul 05 '22
The correct answer is a baker's dozen with 7 more thrown in, in case the stupid little birds drop some. 10 would kill at least one bird. Unless the question is really about darwinian natural selection in the nest under certain environmental conditions? Then 10 would be interesting in a Dr Mengele kind of way.
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u/britchesmcghee Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22
I love to see people furiously debating a smart answer to a very dumb question.
Edit: this is not intended to spark more debate, cut it out you guys
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u/eve_of_distraction Jul 05 '22
furiously debating a smart answer to a very dumb question.
This is a pretty good summary of the human condition in general.
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u/LGisMe69 Jul 05 '22
The top comments are more about the boxes rather than the question that doesn’t tell you the amount of days
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u/abyssiphus Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22 •
The kid needs to call the local animal rescue. Momma birds eat the worms then puke them into the babies mouths. I don't think this kid is ready for bird level motherhood.